1000Daisies said...
"Also, have you tried increasing the pure nystatin? Do you take it w/ low water and w/ good buffers away from anything else? I have doubled my doses with good results."
^ No, I have not increased it, but I'll ask my functional medicine doctor what the highest he goes up to. I'm really seeing nothing from using the pure nystatin yet.
How high did you go? I am now taking it with a little applesauce because it's horrid in water and juice. Do you think this is bad? What do you mean by good buffers? I do try to take it away from other things, but with our schedule, I'm not always fully successful. I'm just glad if I get it in 4x/day some days.
Ahhh - OK. Well, first, taking the Nystatin powder with juice or applesauce (both which are pure sugar) is basically cancelling out any effectiveness of the Nystatin. You're asking it to fight the yeast as you're feeding the yeast and the sugar/yeast will win that battle every time.
I realize the Nystatin tastes like dirt/clay but in order for it to work, you'll need to take it with only water - but not too much water or you'll wash it away before it has a chance to kill whatever is in your mouth/throat. Try drinking while blocking the nasal/sinus cavity w/ the back of your tongue (I know that sounds weird) but your olfactory functions require that air flow (?) to help you tasteā¦ and I apologize to anatomy students for butchering biology.
If you can manage mind over matter - just consider that this is short-term misery for long-term results. The longer you take it, the less reaction you'll have to it. As another motivation - the more you force the Nystatin to fight the sugar you're eating with it, the easier the yeast can grow resistant to it.
And I would try taking the Nystatin alone before increasing doses. But if you can manage the dose you're are on (alone) pretty well, go ahead and increase it. Here is a good guide for dosing, includes up to almost 1/2t at a time.
drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Nystatin_-_how_to_take_itRegarding buffers - I just mean giving the Nystatin time to work before eating drinking anything. It is supposed to work on contact so you don't need long buffers, but some people take it w/ other supps, meds or eat right after and it might not have a chance to work.
1000Daisies said...
"from everything I've read, natural protocols just aren't very effective for existing issues, particularly those you are fighting a long time, which it seems like you've been doing "
I do have these same concerns. However, I also have concerns about the anti-fungal medications too. My doctor doesn't even want to prescribe them to me because he said they are that bad and suggested I go herbal instead.
Unfortunately, when I asked for the yeast to have a sensitivity test, a well-known respected lab in our country said it doesn't have enough information to complete the test and tell me which medications are the most effective. : |
So, given that my symptoms are not that severe at the moment and given that I did knock it back (but not back enough), I'm doing the herbal route unless something changes.
This part of the discussion might be moot, simply because it seems to me that you just need to take the Nystatin correctly, and then you should have better results. And then you can switch to your all-natural maintenance plan with rotating various naturalsā¦ at some point, maybe you can do even less or you may be like me and need to be on some protocol for a long while.
However, I want to reiterate a few things about
anti fungal Rx, as going the natural route is understandable and popular but comes with risks, too. I totally get not wanting to take Rx. I avoided ALL meds for 20 yrsā¦ I refused to take Midol, or Tylenol. I get it and support it and will return to a med-free life ASAP.
But in my experience and research, the positive impacts of the anti fungal Rx (for most people) in addressing what could become a much, much worse and difficult-and-expensive-to-solve storm of problems when yeast/fungus gets out of hand, is far, far greater than most adverse reaction from the meds. It's really no comparison. And most MDs know even less about
how to take these meds more safely and how to protect your liver/kidneys while on them. Nothing is guaranteed - neither pharmaceuticals nor herbs - but it's important to understand the risks of both, WRT the crazy world of yeast/fungus.
You aren't taking the meds long-term and time is precious. Think of it as a couple months on Rx vs. years of battling a y/f problems that now affect every part of your gut, create problems with your digestion, require a very limited diet for every meal, takes years to heal your gut and until it's healed your immune system is compromised, thereby challenging every step of any treatment or health protocol.
If you're curious what can happen when you rely on naturals too long and allow the problem to manifest more deeply - read the "New to Lyme?" postā¦ And, yeast/fungus is yet another area that MDs and naturopaths are less familiar with, so they are continuously giving poor advice. I finally resorted to my own research and both my LLMD and Lyme nurse and naturopath are grateful I did - they couldn't solve my y/f issues, but the research I did was successful. We all learned from it.
That said, again, I really think you might just need to adjust how you take the Nystatin, which is a much gentler Rx than the systemic forms. I just wanted to reiterate my thoughts about
the meds for others who may be reading.
1000Daisies said...
"Question - what sx are you experiencing that make you feel you have a lingering yeast overgrowth?"
^ Most of my symptoms are much improved since last year's battle. My headaches/menstrual headaches gone/decreased, and my kidney pain is gone (or extremely infrequent). So, much improved! However, I still test positive for this pesky yeast via a culture. I still battle fatigue.
You have definitely made progress! Fatigue is a crazy puzzle - can be caused by so many things. Mine improved ONLY when several issues were effectively addressed simultaneously: reduced viral load, adrenal function, biofilm busting, effective detoxing.
Granted, this was well after I was able to manage optimal treatment levels (or in other words, after I had advanced past herxing stages, which happens nearly every time I introduce something new). Busting biofilms was a huge game-changer for me. After a couple anti-biofilm doses I literally felt the release of the anvils tied to my ankles causing so much pain and exhaustion.
Soā¦ if, through these various measures over time, you can eliminate the sx you feel are tied to yeast/fungus overgrowth yet still test positive for high levels of saccharomyces cerevisiae, you probably have two options: 1) try stronger meds and this will require testing them out;
2) you might consider that y/f is more rooted in your natural biome than in other peopleā¦ I have a naturally yeasty environment - or at least I am prone to be reactive to sugar. I manage my sx pretty well but I've also learned through DNA testing that I have several mutations that affect blood sugar processing/management. So it's something I need to keep an eye out for and I pay closer attention to any sx. It also means a life w/out added sugar. For people who are yeasty, this sounds impossible (because the yeast demand sugar, which turns into innocent cravings for you) but reducing volume of yeast reduces the cravings.
Also, if I were you, I would explore other reasons for the exhaustion ASAP. Whatever is causing it is stressing your body and its ability to manage the treatment and certainly the yeast issue. You might not even need to do any testing - for example, try adding good doses of Lysine to see if it can lower viral load.
1000Daisies said...
For biofilms, I'm taking Candizyme (enzyme supplement) that came recommended on some sites. I don't know how effective it is at this point. Any opinions?
I have had good success w/ Beyond Balance BFM-1 - although I admit I have not done a whole lot of research on other products or natural forms.
1000Daisies said...
Lastly, which strains did you test positive for? And did you do it through Doctor's Data or somewhere else?
I had a couple common strains and a couple unidentifiable strains through a stool test and nothing has ever showed up in my blood (despite having severe systemic sx at the time). So, I think the tests are not at all reliable except to identify just a few strains and the Doctor's Data tests is helpful with providing a couple of suggestions for what Rx and natural antifungals are effective against strains it finds. But that's about
it. I suggest people go by sx.
-p