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Question about pulse treatment

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Posted 4/17/2017 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
I know everyone responds differently to treatment, but I wanted some insight on what I should be expecting, in general.

I just finished my first two weeks of pulse treatment with 3 abx taken 2x/day - MWF, with the addition of a 4th on Thurs & Fri.

My first week seemed unaffected, but by the second week I felt a bit more motivated mentally (with work, life, etc.) if that makes sense. I only had nausea the first day, and a few other days (from abx) but it was easily diminished with a few bites of food or just waiting it out. On the off days, I felt a little bit worse, but more or less like I was feeling before starting the abx, though more tired, and with a little more persistent pain... but mostly, I have been the same. I am now in an off week, meaning no abx until next Mon.

Generally, how does this work? Does the body need time to build up to a level of abx before it starts working? I'm just waiting for that big horrible day to come...and with pulsing should I expect to feel worse as treatment progresses?

I guess I'm looking for some insight from others who have done this type of treatment.
Posted 4/17/2017 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
I haven't done any pulsing myself, but I have done some reading on it. The thought is that it allows the bacteria to feel it's "safe" to come back out as spirochetes (rather than to stay in the cyst form or hide out in biofilms or tissues) in the bloodstream, so that they are easier to kill off. Then during the time you are in an "off week" they get comfy again and come out, and they are hit with the treatments again.

Seems to be very helpful for some, but as with most things, not all seem to respond well to this manner of treatment.
Posted 4/17/2017 6:10 PM (GMT 0)
Everyone's 'patterns' are different.

Some people herx on the first or second week - even with a pulsed protocol.

....or it can take longer.

I don't always have distinct patterns...even with charting symptoms...etc.
I have one week in my cycle where I do take the meds daily...and by the end of that week...my symptoms are ramped up (herxing) And then it takes a while on the 'off' week for them to get better....


One other reason for pulsing...is that it allows the immune system to 'kick in' on the off days/weeks.
The thought is if you take antibiotics every day...without breaks - the immune system doesn't see a need to work..as the abx are taking care of the job...
So, the days off...the immune system will step up and start to work.
Posted 4/17/2017 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. I have definitely had more prominent symptoms on the off days, now that I think about it. I was just expecting a mother load given the amount of abx.
Posted 4/17/2017 6:19 PM (GMT 0)
Hi nj

I pulse but not exactly the same schedule you do so I don't know how much help this will be.

I take 3 abx daily 2 x a day and I add a 4th 1 x a day week 1, then 2 x a day week 2, then two weeks off of the 4th abx.

For me with this schedule (I started the 3 abx over a three week period in December and added 4 abx pulse in January) I've slowly gotten less herx issues with the 3 dailys but the 4th brings some rough days during the 2nd week on and the first week off .

Hopefully someone will be along soon that has experience in a like schedule as yours and can offer better help.

Good luck !
Posted 4/17/2017 7:57 PM (GMT 0)
The third reason LLMDs like to pulse is to coincide with the microbes' reproductive process. The Bb generally leave the bloodstream to live amongst organs, tissues and also to evade immune system and abx. And re-enter every 4-6 wks(?) only to reproduce so the pulsing lets them come out to 'play' and then hopefully zaps them while they're at it.

I haven't noticed anyone on a 2-wk cycle before. Not sure that is aiding to hit the reproduction cycle but it is giving your body a break. I've also read about the stimulation of immune response but I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, the important cues are your reactions/herxing, etc. Do you know if your LLMD plans to increase intensity eventually?

-p
Posted 4/17/2017 8:07 PM (GMT 0)
LL Dr. J's protocols are usually two weeks on and then one week off - sometimes two weeks off.
Posted 4/17/2017 8:33 PM (GMT 0)
I've been through 2 cycles of Dr. J's protocol (2 weeks on abx, 1 week off). Cycle 3 and 4 will be 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Given the week off each cycle I've been able to compare/contrast symptoms between each cycle as well as how i'm doing on abx versus off abx (before this I did abx pretty much daily for almost 2 years).

Cycle 1 felt worse the week off and didn't feel close to normal until 8 days after stopping abx/before Cycle 2. Cycle 2 I felt worse for a bit less days but the symptoms were less severe. Now I did switch Cipro out for Mino due to neuropathy but I think the pattern would've held true.

Dr. J pulses to primarily give the body a rest from the onslaught of pathogen die off and to let your immune system due some of the heavy lifting. Abx's stop, bugs come out to play since the rain has stopped and your immune system contributes to the cause.

I think the reason for the 2 week break starting Cycle 3 is to stretch this concept and see how you respond. Dr. J has said the typical patient requires 9-15 months of this type of approach to get to almost if not completely well.
Posted 4/17/2017 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
I would expect the M-W-F with weekend on the 4th ABX would have a less sever impact than a more daily regimen, and allow you to detox at a more level rate. Let me guess... Is the 4th ABX TindaMax or Flagyl?

I've done several pulse routines, and lots of blast 'em hard take no prisoner protocols.
Posted 4/17/2017 8:50 PM (GMT 0)

tickbite666 said...
I would expect the M-W-F with weekend on the 4th ABX would have a less sever impact than a more daily regimen, and allow you to detox at a more level rate. Let me guess... Is the 4th ABX TindaMax or Flagyl?

I've done several pulse routines, and lots of blast 'em hard take no prisoner protocols.

I find pulsing to be more tolerable than the daily dosing.

I also find that I am able to load up on the probiotics on the off-days...without having to time it a couple hours away from the antibiotics.
Posted 4/17/2017 9:04 PM (GMT 0)
My 4th abx is Ceftin.
Posted 4/17/2017 9:10 PM (GMT 0)
DS just had his 16 month checkup and has been pulsing similar to you that whole time. Pulsing is definitely gentler on his system as they asked him to try daily (M-F) on one of his abx for mycoplasma last spring, he was herxing too much and they had him cut back to MWF. For the first 6 months it was very hard on him and he was quite sick but then gradually he has generally felt better by each new appt.

Also for the first months by the end of his week "off" meds he was feeling awful and wanted to go back on. That has not been the case for many months now. He feels more or less the same every week on or off. He also happens to have 1, sometimes 2 days of chronic fatigue each week - usually Tuesday which is after the bugs get hit most weeks with the abx.

Everyone is different and the bug life cycles and amount of each co-infection vary for each patient so everyone has a different path. Also it probably depends on how long you've had the infections.
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