B Complex

I don't know if I have the MTHFR gene...but I bought a Swanson B (with methylated B's - can't remember which ones - B6 and another) , and Folate instead of Folic acid.

It didn't affect me at all...but either did my 'regular' B complex.

Can you take a lower dose? Is it a tablet you can split?

Sounds like maybe you are over methylating?

Maybe you should stop until you can talk to your Dr.

Can you explain why we need folate rather than folic acid? Unfortunately it's a capsule so I can't cut in half. I'm new to all of this, can you tell me what over-methylating means?

The brand is ProCaps. The ingredients are as follows for one capsule:

Amount per serving %DV*
Vitamin B1 (as thiamin hydrochloride) 50 mg 3,333%
Vitamin B2 (as riboflavin) 50 mg 2,941%
Niacin (as niacinamide) 50 mg 250%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 50 mg 2,500%
Folate Complex (as L-methylfolate/folic acid) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin - protected Coenzyme B12) 250 mcg 4,167%
Biotin 300 mcg 100%
Pantothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate). 50mg. 500%

I hope you can read that ok. Any culprits stand out? I'm all ears. Thanks so much.

Funny thing is, after the terrible reaction passed ( it took a few hours), I actually felt better than usual. Less pain, etc... Strange, not sure if there is a connection or not. I'm torn because I know I need the supplement, I just can't feel like that daily. I wish I could pinpoint the issue. Thanks for reading

Hi ccc,

Yes, that is it. Oh my goodness, I didn't realize it has both folate and folic acid! And since it doesn't say exactly how much of each is in the capsule, it technically could be mostly folic acid. Maybe that's the problem? Maybe I don't need a complex and should just try a few b vitamins. Any idea which B vitamins are most important? I really appreciate the help. Thanks

Potassium:
When you kick-start your body with B vitamins, you can end up with an extreme need for potassium. It is explained by something called refeeding syndrome - your body starts working again and effectively runs out of potassium (some sources think this is due to sudden and accelerated cell division wanting more potassium than you have, others explain it as a sudden switch-on of the adrenal system, with the B vitamins being the missing precursor, and this variously leads to using more potassium or potassium dumping).

Hypokalemia (low potassium) can be dangerous. So we always have some potassium on hand. A spoonful of potassium gluconate in coconut water (not milk - they're not the same) usually resolves any issues.

B vitamins
What is your MTHFR result? You might find the folic acid doesn't really matter as much as you think.

It's hard to say where you should start. I'm not sure you need to drop the supplement you are on: you are getting something we call 'start-up', and that wouldn't happen if the folic acid were your main issue. On the other hand, who knows what else is happening.

To save money and time, I would firstly try splitting the dose (inconvenient) and having some potassium on hand. Even having a banana-coconut water smoothy a half hour or so beforehand would help if you have no potassium gluconate powder on hand. If you can tolerate a quarter of a dose and get benefit, then try half a dose - all with potassium before and possibly afterwards. Maybe the main issue was potassium! (Might need to watch magnesium too eventually, but you'd already be getting that in your detox bath, I'm sure)

Then, if the folic acid still bothers you, I would try something like a B complex from Jarrow (B right), Pure Encapsulations or Thorne research. But you would most likely have to split the capsule. I couldn't find one in a tablet (they're easier to split).

A doctor might be happier with this too.

After that, it starts to get more experimental. Your reaction could be from any of the B12, B6 or the folate. Any one of them is possible. B1 and B2 are unlikely, but not impossible. You're starting to get quite experimental. You would want doctor's advice if you're not prepared to spend hours and hours reading.

People do potassium differently.

Some have a minimum amount they need each day. Others take it in response to symptoms (we do both, but a lot of the second one).

You might be in the first group, so take it 30-60 minutes before you take the Bs. And maybe start having bananas for brekky as well.

As for the form, when my son really needs potassium, he has a whole teaspoon of powder in a glass of coconut water, and sometimes 2 tspns. He also has about 1/2-1 tspn in a chocolate milk most days as a baseline (it's like a salted chocolate, but very mild.)

I'm not sure how the citrate would go on your tummy in that quantity, but hey, if it works for you, keep doing it! The only reason we stick with the gluconate is that it's cheap, easy on the tummy (not acidic) and well absorbed. Okay that's three reasons - all along the idea of it works for us.

MTHFR - do you have your result there?

BeKindPls said...
Funny thing is, after the terrible reaction passed ( it took a few hours), I actually felt better than usual. Less pain, etc... Strange, not sure if there is a connection or not. I'm torn because I know I need the supplement, I just can't feel like that daily. I wish I could pinpoint the issue. Thanks for reading

This would actually indicate overmethylation - your body is detoxing too much too fast because those 'connections' for detoxing are finally being made better. I would encourage you to only take half of your pill/capsule for a few days to a couple of weeks, then try adding in a bit more.

I went through this as I started the methyl B-12 and methyl folate. I had to titrate up carefully in order to avoid serious herxing.

Thanks Traveler and ccc. I'm going to take your advice and titrate slowly. As for the actual supplement, I found what I think it a good multi with the necessary B vitamins in correct form. Does this look like a good one? I deleted the other vitamins and minerals and just listed the Bs. Note that the serving size is 2 capsules, what if I start with one?:

Thiamin (as Thiamin HCI) 50 mg 3,333%
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 12 mg 706%
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg 400%
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5' Phopsphate) 20 mg 1,000%
Folate (as L-5 Methltetrahydrofolate† from L-5 Methyltetrahydrofolic acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 600 mcg 10,000%
Biotin 500 mcg 167%
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 45 mg 450%

Thanks again

Thanks! The potassium I have is 200mcg (6%). Is that ok? And it's ok if I take the b vitamins mixed in with other vitamins (since it's a multi)? Sorry for all the questions. Thank you!

Hi ccc,

That is the B complex I took the other day that I reacted to. Through research I found a multi-vitamin with these B vitamins included (lower dose):

Thiamin (as Thiamin HCI) 50 mg 3,333%
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 12 mg 706%
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg 400%
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5' Phopsphate) 20 mg 1,000%
Folate (as L-5 Methltetrahydrofolate† from L-5 Methyltetrahydrofolic acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 600 mcg 10,000%
Biotin 500 mcg 167%
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 45 mg 450%

But this is not just a B complex, it's a multi (I just deleted the other vitamins to save space). Just wanted to make sure it's ok to take the multi rather than the B vitamins alone.

Great advice on the potassium. I'm going to get some coconut water to have on hand. Thanks very much

Hi ccc,

Sure, he is a list of all of the ingredients in the multi:

Two Capsules Contain:
Vitamin A (3,000 IU from Beta Carotenes and 2,000 IU as Palmitate) 5,000 IU
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 250 mg
Vitamin D (as Vitamin D3) 2,000 IU
Vitamin E (as d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acid Succinate) 20 IU
Vitamin K (200 mcg as Vitamin K1 and 200 mcg as Vitamin K2) 400 mcg
Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 50 mg
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 12 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 20 mg
Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate* from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 600 mcg
Biotin 500 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 45 mg
Calcium (as TRAACS® Calcium Bisglycinate Chelate)** 30 mg
Iodine (as Potassium Iodide) 75 mcg
Magnesium (as TRAACS® Magnesium Bisglycinate Chelate)** 20 mg
Zinc (as TRAACS® Zinc Bisglycinate Chelate)** 15 mg
Selenium (as L-Selenomethionine) 200 mcg
Copper (as TRAACS® Copper Bisglycinate Chelate)** 750 mcg
Manganese (as TRAACS® Manganese Bisglycinate Chelate)** 3 mg
Chromium (as TRAACS® Chromium Nicotinate Glycinate Chelate)** 400 mcg
Molybdenum (as TRAACS® Molybdenum Glycinate Chelate)** 100 mcg
d-Gamma Tocopherol (from Mixed Tocopherols) 24 mg
Boron (as Bororganic™ Boron Glycinate Complex)*** 2 mg
Lutein (from Aztec Marigold extract (flower) (Tagetes erecta)) 300 mcg

I was thinking of starting with just one a day. How does it look?! Thanks!

Hi ccc,

I'm going to order that multi. Glad to hear it looks like a good one.

I don't know what form the B12 injections were, but I would hope they were methyl form because the doctor who tested my MTHFR gene was the one giving me the injections, so she knew I needed the methyl form. Have you heard of such high B12 levels? Is it just not being absorbed? Thanks for all the help.