Reaction to probiotics, why? I need your thoughts, thank you!!

Can anyone shed any light on this for me? When I stopped taking amoxicillin back in December I was staying on my probiotic to try to help my gut but I kept having the following:

-irritability (so uncharacteristic)
-nightmares/bizarre dreams
-waking up often like every hour through each night
-severe insomnia

Mind you I was taking it before bed because I had read on here that that was a good idea. Anyway I stopped taking it about two weeks after stopping the amoxicillin and all of that got way better! Especially the bizarre sleep.

So I've been trying a probiotic again but am now taking it in the morning and only a tiny bit, not the full capsule even, and the same thing is happening again!!

Why would I be reacting to something as harmless as a probiotic this way? I have always been extremely sensitive to any medicine my whole life but this is an over the counter probiotic!! What on earth?!

Since two months into taking antibiotics I developed severe, uncomfortable, pregnant looking bloating and constipated stools. It hasn't stopped several months after stopping the antibiotic.

My LLMD thinks I have Bartonella and possibly candida or sibo & wants me to take nystatin and I'm just struggling to figure out what to do to help heal my gut if I can't even take something as simple as a probiotic!!

Could it be that I really do have a candida problem and the reactions are a herx? I have noticed I'm immediately having more joint pain in my right knee than normal also.

Or could it be that I really do have Bartonella and it's not liking the probiotic?

Help! I feel so frustrated about this crazy bloating and I just don't know what to do or why the probiotic causes this for me!! Thank you so much!!

Hi Traveler, thank you so much! Like a systemic yeast infection? Like all through my body? By he way before the antibiotics I never reacted this way to probiotics!! I did read her post but I will reread it again. I'm thinking I may need to start only by changing my diet? Instead of taking something? Because I absolutely hate how it messes with my sleep so much - I am ordinarily not the greatest sleeper so to have all of this on top of it all is not fun. Also can it really cause irritability and joint pain?

Thank you so much!! I find it absolutely crazy that I went from Lyme and coinfections to dealing with a systemic infection caused by treating those infections!! This is crazy!! Now I will have to expect to go through herxing again?? Why does this even happen? The human body and immune system is so intricate!! Thank you so much, I wonder if it would be most gentle to start with just the diet changes. Also I really may also have Bartonella to deal with still too but I would think I need to deal with candida first.

Hi H Mommy-

I'm sorry about all this... complications seem to lead to endless complications. There will be an endpoint, maybe it will include some changes in life but you will get this under control, too.

Traveler already shared great info. I'll echo that and share a little update I need to make to that yeast/fungal thread she referenced since it has to deal with the very issue you're faced with.

This is the link and the update is below:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

First, agree that you should stop the probiotics - more on that below.

Second, I also agree that it's very possible you have a yeast/fungal issue now because of the abx - probiotics sometimes won't prevent imbalance.
- Good idea to start on the diet ASP.
- And you should definitely start on the Nystatin but try to get the pure powder if you can (more about it in the thread above). Doing both of these things might cause a die off at first (which could feel like your sx are worse) but then should calm down and you should feel much better.
- And also incorporate a good binder that can help remove the debris you're treating - particularly w/ y/f overgrowth... (bentonite clay, charcoal, psyllium husk, cholestyramine). I've found that my cholestyramine also helps prevent growth and manage die off detox, etc. Remember the gut-brain connection can create psychological issues from whatever is going on in the gut.

If you don't feel better, then I'd explore other issues with GI. Maybe we can talk about it more specifically at that point.

Regarding probiotics:
In the thread and in multiple other conversations I've had on this forum over the past couple of years I have recommended even high doses of probiotics for people, and also suggested they be the last thing people do before bedtime. And for some people, this remains good advice. ;)

For others, however, I need to add this caveat:
After finally working through remaining yeast/fungal issues that crept up after I started busting biofilms that were hiding pockets of yeast/fungus, I learned even more about what was going on with me that I hope helps others.

I think some of us have to be careful with probiotics - I started feeling much better after I stopped taking it. I was using a high-quality, fresh, 34-strain product at high doses. Something in it was causing problems, or the imbalance that probiotics can create caused problems... I don't know which and didn't have the time or energy to investigate, a process of elimination is nearly impossible with something like that. So I stopped and whatever imbalance that it created is better now w/out probiotics. I have no doubt my GI is still imbalanced (I'm still on abx) but it's less imbalanced or it's an imbalance that I can tolerate better.

Sorry, that's a little vague but generally, I'm thinking some of us have to be careful w/ creating more imbalance with probiotics. There have been a few people posting about the same issue.

Hope that's helpful -

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 5/19/2017 11:04:19 AM (GMT-6)

Another consideration is "leaky gut". The probiotics can be stirring up the yeast, releasing molecules that are traversing the gut lining. Lots of strange effects can come from that.

Thank you all so much!! Yes everything you have each shared has been so very helpful!! I will start with diet. Pirouette, thank you for believing that at some point it will all be under control for me, you give me hope <3 Old salty, I will look into leaky gut. Traveler,
Thank you so much!!

Well, I hope I won't discourage you, but in my experience, systemic candida is even MUCH harder to eliminate than Borrelia.

The reason MAY lie on this following theory:

https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/understanding-virulence-and-why-it-is-the-key-to-your-recovery

Borrelia rates 3, 4 on the scale of virulence according to Dr. Rawl, being still considered a stealth pathogen.

But THE stealthiest critter of all is the intestinal flora, meaning all candidas, fungi, bacteria inhabiting ourselves for thousands of years.

He doesn't say that, but he implies this:
- the most down in the virulence scale (like intestinal candida), the more well-established in our bodies. It doesn't mean, years, but thousands of years of parallel evolution TOGETHER!!

- if OUR immune system missed the knowledge on how to keep-at-bay these very stealthy pathogens such as intestinal candida, it means it is in real bad shape.

This is because we have evolved with them, and they with us, and we established that thousand-years symbiotic relation, where both sides profit.

He didn't say that clearly, but without our flora, we cannot survive, because we can't break food as fast as the intestinal flora.


In his view, generally, more virulent pathogens respond well to aggressive treatment, such as drugs and very well targeted treatments (vaccines, for example).

Our immune systems do not know these very virulent pathogens. That is why strong antibiotics, possibly one Rife frequency, one strong treatment whatever it is, may have strong impacts and help us get rid of it.

Our immune systems feel their danger and try to attack them, in order to save our lives.

But the pathogens that are not even 'pathogens the whole time', but our symbiotic friends most of the times, that live 'under the radar' of the immune system, well, these are harder to eliminate, because they are not exactly seen as our enemies only. Not by our own immune system (or if they are seen, they are not seen as we should be in 'red alarm').

Whatever you do to fight these very down the scale critter is hard.

The lowest on the virulence scale, the more stealth they are, the harder to eliminate.

That is why I use this approach:

- avoiding destroying my flora at most times!