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My new protocol given by a research scientist, please give opinions!

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Posted 5/19/2017 6:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hey everyone,

It's been a while since I last posted. I've had a nice long patch of feeling well. However, I was still only at about 80% recovered from Lyme. So I decided to start a new protocol with a research scientist doctor. He seems to have done a lot of research and written a ton of books, and has a phD. So I figure he must know his stuff. Anyway here is the protocol. (This was based mostly on a blood microscopy)

Multi vitamin --3/day. (Including 35,000IU of Vit A)
Enzymes --3/day
Turmeric inflammation --3 x a day (including Bosswellia)
Omega----3 3/day (from fish oil)
Vitamin A & D --3/day (more Vitamin A!!)
Phos Serine --3/day
P-5-P -- 2/day
Vit E-400 -- 2/day
Alpha Lipoic acid -- 2/day
Magnesium powder in evening
Potassium Iodine drop 3x
Lipo-Spheric Vitamin C 1000mg
pH minerals with fulvic acid added to all water. 6oz daily.

Also a protein drink to drink 3 cups throughout the day. Ingredients:

2 tsp Wheat germ
3 tsp soy lecithin
2 tsp whey powder
4 tsp nutritional yeast with B vitamins
2 raw eggs
2 1/2 cups raw milk
3 tsp flax oil
2 tsp pH minerals
1 tsp magnadophilus

My concerns: Firstly, I feel that this is too much Vitamin A with the multivitamin. The multivitamin has a lot of high amounts in it. A lot of the daily Value columns are in the 100s and 1000s%.
There is nothing in here that attacks the lyme or biofilms that I am aware of. And so I am continuing to take cat's claw and Resveratrol.
Another concern of mine is that this is far too high in protein.
However he is a research scientist and what do I know?
I have been on this protocol for a little over a month now. I got way worse at first, but I kept going with it, and got better for a little while. However I am worse now, but I haven't been sticking to the protocol perfectly (especially now that I am doubting it), and I've been eating a little sugar (baaaaad) and too much bread. So it's hard to pinpoint what the cause is.

I would be interested in any of your opinions on this protocol?
I was on Buhner protocol for over a year with great success, but I plateaued without getting fully better.

Thank you kindly.
Posted 5/19/2017 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
floza - I see a lot of good ingredients in that list...but that looks like more of a support protocol...not a treatment plan.

So - that's good you are continuing to take CC and Resveratrol. Are you taking Japanese knotweed? (that is what is recommended to get the Resveratrol from)

And..what about co-infections? Did you treat with Buhner's recommended herbals for Bart and Babs?
Posted 5/19/2017 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Girlie smile Yeah I totally agree that is seems like more of a support. Kinda having my immune system do all the work.
And yes I am taking Paradise Herbs resveratrol. I have never dealt with the potentiality of co-infections... I haven't had any symptoms of bart or babs, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out.
I just haven't known how to tackle it.
I still have yet to find a doctor that has actually helped me!
Posted 5/19/2017 6:55 PM (GMT 0)
Re: Vitamin A - I thought the limit was 10,000 IU? What is you total daily intake?

You can take beta carotene and your body will convert as needed.

You definitely need to look into the co-infections - which will mean more than just JK and CC.

Some of the symptoms overlap with lyme - so you can't be certain. You should consider Bart and Babs.

What symptoms do you have?

Also, some LLMD's talk about asymptomatic infections holding us back from full healing.
Posted 5/19/2017 6:55 PM (GMT 0)
Have you thought about consulting with one of Buhner's recommended herbalists?
Posted 5/19/2017 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
Yes the vitamin A, if I am taking full daily dose I am taking about 55,000IU of Vitamin A. That seems absolutely insane.

Yeah I just haven't known how to find out which coinfections I could have. I've seen about 4 doctors and they've all ignored the idea of coinfections. I understand I could get an igenex test, but I know that's super expensive.

I like the sound of Buhner's herbalists.. I assume I can find out more on his website?

Thanks
Posted 5/19/2017 7:06 PM (GMT 0)
You can trial herbals specific to the co's. and see if you get a reaction.

Here is a thread -with a link to a listing of herbalists:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3727651

There may be a more current listing.

Some forum members are finding Tim Scott to be a good herbalist. (he's on the list)


Also - have you tried finding a LLND or LLMD ?
Posted 5/19/2017 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Ok I like the idea of trialling the herbs and waiting for a reaction.

I just checked out Buhner's website. The nearest herbalists to me are minimum 7 hours drive. Road trip lol!?

Yes I have seen one LLMD and had a not-so-satisfactory experience. Had to wait months for an appointment, paid loads of money, and didn't get much back. Just told to take essential oils.
I've looked up most of the LLMD's in my area, and they are all either too expensive or the wait list is over 6 months. I just can't get on board with that.

I'd rather teach myself! Just trying to find the right herbalist school to go to smile
Posted 5/19/2017 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
Ah I just saw that Tim Scott is with Green Dragon botanicals. I was taking GDB core lyme protocol for over a year and I honestly think that is what has healed me more than anything. I wish I lived any where near Vermont! (I'm in LA)
Posted 5/19/2017 7:28 PM (GMT 0)

floza said...
Ok I like the idea of trialling the herbs and waiting for a reaction.

I just checked out Buhner's website. The nearest herbalists to me are minimum 7 hours drive. Road trip lol!?

Yes I have seen one LLMD and had a not-so-satisfactory experience. Had to wait months for an appointment, paid loads of money, and didn't get much back. Just told to take essential oils.
I've looked up most of the LLMD's in my area, and they are all either too expensive or the wait list is over 6 months. I just can't get on board with that.

I'd rather teach myself! Just trying to find the right herbalist school to go to smile

I know some of them do phone consults. (Tim Scott - I believe is one that does)
Posted 5/20/2017 3:22 PM (GMT 0)
I would recommend that you call them to find out if they can treat you without seeing you in person. Many herbalists can do that, it depends on the laws in their respective states. It might be just what you need!
Posted 5/20/2017 3:35 PM (GMT 0)
There is a slight flaw in this protocol, which can make a difference is some people here, prob all people, just to different extents.

"2 tsp Wheat germ
3 tsp soy lecithin
2 tsp whey powder
4 tsp nutritional yeast
2 1/2 cups raw milk"

All the above can cause autoimmune issues/inflammation and is usually left out of autoimmune healing type of diets. I used to take colostrum - derived from raw milk, its the "first milk", I eliminated this too. My C4a inflammation test and thyroid antibodies improved dramatically while elimination all of the above., with exception of the yeast, which I didnt take. But - Any yeast product can proliferate in an immune compromised body.

Dont mean to rain on you parade, its awesome your feeling better! (I know the feeling)- but this area needs some attention.

You can buy protein mixes that are plant based, usually pea protein, they leave out all inflammatory ingredients and are non-GMO.

Post Edited (astroman) : 5/20/2017 9:53:45 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/20/2017 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
You were on Buhner's protocol for over a year and plateaued? I think you should have made a few changes to get that last 20% gone. That last 20% could have been one of the co-infections or even could have been a couple of co-infections that were not being addressed.

What were the remaining 20% symptoms?
Posted 5/20/2017 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler hi! - Yes I think you're exactly right. I think my body responds well to herbs, I'll consult the list and find a good herbalist. Last time I checked I think Green Dragon Botanicals stopped doing consultations.

Astroman - Not at all, that's exactly what I want, your opinion smile I don't particularly like blindly following a protocol, and I'm a little skeptical about this protocol. Especially as he hasn't really confronted the lyme. He just keeps saying that once you balance the blood sugar and replace lost minerals you can beat anything. I'm sure there's truth in it, but I also believe that it can't be that simple.
I have the autoimmune gene (if that's a thing) in my family. My mum and my sister have serious autoimmune diseases. So it's definitely something I'm aware of. And so I had actually given up dairy before I started on this new protocol. I much prefer the sound of a plant-based protein powder, and that's what I was taking before. Well, I guess the experiment continues!

PeteZa -
Yeah I had plateaued for a few months, but couldn't find the information on what herbs to take, not knowing if I had co-infections or not. And so that's why I started this new protocol with this doctor. I also wondered about taking herbs for so long and whether I should take a break from them.
My last symptoms were brain fog, and that feeling of not being 100% well, kinda like disassociation. Honestly, my symptoms are so come-and-go (of course) that it's hard to remember them all. I had a blood microscopy a few months ago and it showed the lyme was still there along with a virus. I wish I could just get a whole bunch of igenex tests to see what's up!
How would you recommend I figure out which co-infections I might have?
My current symptoms are: furious eye twitches, heavy legs, low motivation, low mood, very tired (i'm napping for a few hours in the daytime, note: I'm 28) One weird symptom I have is that my lower rib will get "stuck" and really hurts, particularly when I laugh.
Posted 5/20/2017 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I'm obviously not PeteZa, but it sounds like you could have Bartonella as well as that virus. There are antiviral herbs/supplements that you could take for that. Bartonella often increases nerve/nervous system issues, among other things.

If you wished to continue with Buhner's protocols, he has inexpensive books you can buy that have a lot more information in them than the website has. He lists extended protocols for helping you to deal with the more serious symptoms.

The other thing you can do is to trial some of the core protocols to see if you have a response with them - either herxing or symptom improvement will let you know if it's hitting anything.
Posted 5/20/2017 5:55 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler - Thanks for the tips. Super helpful, as ever! I have one of his books "Herbal Antibiotics" but it didn't mention lyme, and I couldn't find anything in it that was relevant to me. Maybe I bought the wrong book..
When you mention core protocols, where can I find out what those are? On Buhner's website?
Thanks smile
Posted 5/20/2017 6:27 PM (GMT 0)
For Lyme, you will want to get Buhner's "Healing Lyme" 2nd edition (it has a green cover). You can buy it for under $20 in several places in the US.

The core protocol is listed on the website that is based on his protocols: buhnerhealinglyme.com/

And I've copied and pasted the core protocol for Lyme below, from his website:
"core protocol (lyme disease)
Here is a brief look at the stripped down core approaches to treating Lyme and some of its co-infections. Stephen highly suggests buying his relevant books so that you can see the full expanded protocols. This is just a starting place; the full protocols are much more sophisticated, especially the listings for the many accompanying symptoms that often need to be addressed.

1. Japanese knotweed root (Polygonum cuspidatum)
• Powder: 1 tsp – 1 TBS of the root powder 3x daily. Start at the lower dose and work up, OR . . .
• Tincture: ¼ – 1 tsp 3-6x daily, OR . . .
• Tablets (Green Dragon Botanicals): These are normally labeled as resveratrol on the bottle. They are in fact knotweed root standardized for resveratrol content. (Note: Don’t use grape resveratrol; it won’t work very well.) Some comments on tablet dosages below:

2. Cat’s claw bark (Uncaria tomentosa)
• Powder: 1 tsp 3x daily, OR . . .
• Tincture: ¼ – ½ tsp 3x daily, OR . . .
• Tablets/capsules (Green Dragon Botanicals): 1–4 500 mg tablets/capsules 3x day.

3. Andrographis (Andrographis paniculata)
• Capsules: Begin with a small dose and work up. I would recom­mend 600 mg (1 capsule) 3x daily to begin with, for one week. Then, if there are no side effects, increase the dose to 2 capsules 3x daily. Please check the side effects on this herb: Unpleas­ant allergic reactions can occur.

4. If you have neuroborrelliosis, add: Gou-Teng (Uncaria rhynchophylla)
• Tincture: ½ – 1 tsp 3–6x daily, depending on severity of brain infection.

5. Collagen support protocols (see book) are often essential, as well."
Posted 5/20/2017 11:01 PM (GMT 0)
To me it seems that you may not have gotten rid of lyme. A lot of your remaining symptoms are lyme and "could" be co-infections. But because you only got up to 20 drops, I am suspicious of it being lyme.

Here is buhner's core protocol from his book:

1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage or pinyin: dānshēn) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc - My personal recommendation for collagen is Protein Essentials Hydrolyzed Collagen.

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis


20 drops is not even a dropper full and on some of the Buhner herbs I got up to 2 dropper's full. I don't think you treated with high enough dosages on the Buhner herbs. Once you plateaued, you should have upped your dosage just a tad, little by little. Still this is just my opinion, but also indicated by the maximum dosages with Buhner. If you are at 80%, not herxing and still with symptoms, I think it time to up the dosage.

Post Edited (PeteZa) : 5/20/2017 5:04:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/20/2017 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
To me its all good but not sure it doesn't need two pieces. I always tell people to check there jaw with a biological dds-the checkup is usually cheap and this can be a cause of a lower immune system.
Based off my last couple months I would add ten pass ozone-kills bacteria-fungal-parasite-all bad stuff that's not you.

Post Edited (magoo2) : 5/21/2017 3:18:51 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/21/2017 5:30 AM (GMT 0)
Traveler - Thanks so much for the info. I was taking Green dragon botanicals core protocol for over a year (andrographis, Cats claw, resveratrol, sarsaparilla, dandelion). I'm going to start on this protocol again now. I have also ordered Buhner's 2nd edition book. Do you have a suggestion on a herb I could add in to test for reactions for co-infections?

PeteZa - Thank you so much for the information. Super helpful. I'm definitely getting back on Buhner's protocol. Yeah I know that I still have lyme, didn't question that for a second - _ -
Just curious as to where you got the info that I had only got up to '20 drops'? I was taking a core protocol in pill form from Green Dragon botanicals. I was taking 4 pills three times daily. I couldn't really find out what the maximum dosage was, so I stuck with that dosage. Maybe I should have increased it even more? Thanks for the sound advice. Now I know that when I'm doing better but not recovered, time to up the dosage.

Magoo2 - I'm having some difficulty understanding your post! I've wondered for a long time about doing ozone therapy but have always been put off by the costs. And what is a biological dos?

Thanks to everyone smile)
Posted 5/21/2017 8:13 AM (GMT 0)
Biological dentist is one that uses no amalgm fillings checks for cavitations and corrects bit a good one can be hard to find ...the dna connexions test is a urine pcr and test for many coinfections ..no doc needed
Posted 5/21/2017 12:43 PM (GMT 0)
Floza- you can buy a home ozone machine for around 600 and a tank of o2 for around 100 and do Ozone RI.
There are many videos on youtube about this.
The positive about ozone is it kills all bugs not you and is good for your immune system. I do think think could help you
Posted 5/21/2017 2:08 PM (GMT 0)

floza said...
Traveler - Thanks so much for the info. I was taking Green dragon botanicals core protocol for over a year (andrographis, Cats claw, resveratrol, sarsaparilla, dandelion). I'm going to start on this protocol again now. I have also ordered Buhner's 2nd edition book. Do you have a suggestion on a herb I could add in to test for reactions for co-infections?

A lot of people herx on Houttuynia if they have Bartonella and a lot of people will herx on the CSA combination for Babesia (Cryptolepsis, Sida acuta, & Alchornia from Woodland Essence).

You can see the core protocols for Bartonella and Babesia here as well: buhnerhealinglyme.com/
Posted 5/21/2017 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
Vitamins work in tandem with each other and have cofactors. If you over supplement one vitamin when you don't have a deficiency, you could be creating a problem with toxicity or you could create a deficiency with one of your other cofactors.

The Linus Pauling site Vit A toxicity:

lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-A#toxicity

"Signs of toxicity are associated with long-term consumption of Vit. A in excess of 10x the RDA."

However, the raising of your Vit. D levels will lower your threshold for Vit. A toxicity. But you also want to make sure that you take a certain amount of K2 with your Vit. D to ensure that calcium ends up in places it should be and stays out of places it shouldn't be (this is been shown in animal models).

Another example of this would be if you took an excessive amount of alpha lipoic acid, it can rob your biotin and iodine levels because they all share the same transporter. I'm not saying that is the case with the protocol you listed, but you need to research everything on that protocol list.

And don't think that a research Ph.D. necessarily knows more than you. My profession is almost entirely made up of PhDs...and let me tell you, that means very little. It doesn't make necessarily make them capable or knowledgeable outside of their tiny area of study. I've worked next to PhDs that were brilliant beyond belief ......and PhD's who couldn't punch their way out of paper bag.

Post Edited (madisongrrl) : 5/21/2017 10:15:48 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/21/2017 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
floza, my mistake on the 20 drops.... got you confused with someone else. I apologize.

As for an herb to test for co-infection, I can't think of one. Some will tell you that if you take a babesia herb and if you herx, then you have babesia. I don't know that I buy into that.... but oh well. I know I had bart because I got the bart scratch marks. I took Houttuynia for bart and had no herx, so there goes that theory of herxing means you have it. At least for me and for my husband.

What I did was treat lyme and a lot of my herbs crossed over to also treat babs and bart. I had a cough that was not getting better, so I used NAC for it. I suspect that it was mycoplasma. I was already taking Chinese skullcap, cordyceps, and many other mushrooms and houttuynia. I just added in the NAC (and used peppermint castile soap in my bathing) and my coughing quit after a month....

And in the end I did use cryptolepis just in case I had babs. I did not want to treat, get to the finish line and have something hidden pop and have to start all over again.
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