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Posted 6/1/2017 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
I'm a few weeks in to a herbal-based protocol for the treatment of a "relapse" of Bartonella (I have mycoplasma and suspected Lyme as well, so they may also be in play; however, my feeling is that the main culprit right now is Bart.) At the moment, I'm only on Hottuynia and Red Clover (and Pinella and Burbur Detox, when needed). I'm taking a slew of other prescription meds and supplements to support my body, but for the infection itself I'm trying a herbal approach because my body can no longer handle any abx. I have two questions I would really appreciate hearing your opinion on:

1. Since starting treatment, I've noticed pale red spots on my hands and a significant increase in bruising all over my body. Is there any way to tell if these are due to the treatment working or if they are just the infection coming back even stronger? (I am not herxing like I did on abx, so I'm unclear about how to tell if the herbs are working. I'm also worried that the Bart. is going unchecked, due to the lack of herxing.)

2. I've noticed a huge increase in symptoms when I have PMS. These include constant visible shaking all over my body, bad migraines, a feeling of "vibrating" in my body (but especially my head and neck), fatigue, and brain fog. Can anyone explain why this is happening?

I'd love to hear your thoughts or own experiences, as the information I learn from folks on this forum is so much more helpful than anywhere else I've looked. Thank you!
Posted 6/1/2017 5:44 PM (GMT 0)
I'm wondering if it could be Babesia - red spots and bruising.

Hormonal fluctuations can affect our symptoms.
Posted 6/1/2017 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
Many women have increased symptoms just before, during and even after their menses. Unfortunately the hormonal changes during these times really affect us.

Are you only using Houttuynia and red clover for your treatments for Bart? That's not enough, so it's likely that the infection is continuing. Have you considered a full Bartonella protocol? That's what I'd suggest.

The bruising could be from a number of things, unfortunately. It could be from the Bartonella, as when Bartonella progresses, it interferes with vascular integrity, which will allow the veins to have small 'cracks' or openings, and leak a bit of blood, causing the bruise.

Extra bruising can also be cause by using too high of a dose of anti-inflammatories too.

If these don't seem to fit, I would suggest that you get in to be checked, but I would bet that it's one of the reasons I listed above. I get bruises very easily when I'm in treatment for Bart.

The pale red spots could be from a number of things. Do you also get what are commonly called cherry angiomas? Those are commonly caused by Babesia, another common co-infection. Some people have them raised above the skin and some have them below the skin surface.
Posted 6/1/2017 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Celie -

I like the idea of trying all-herbs.

I had no outward signs of bart when I started treatment or the 16 prior years being untreated. No rashes, nothing even on herbal tinctures... and then I started IV rocephin and had EM rashes show up and also other rashes that look like bart-related rashes before and during IV vanco tx. 5 different types of rashes in all.

The rashes can help diagnose to start out but I don't think the occurrence or lack of rashes mean a whole lot in terms of what is going on with treatment or infection. Except that they can sometimes indicate the immune system is reacting to infection in the flesh/skin rather than in bone marrow, blood, where you can't see it.

It is also common to have increased symptoms during our periods - for various reasons - hormonal surges and other chemicals that need additional processing and detoxing. Menstruation is a kind of detoxing process, itself, but I think that's where things go wrong when we're not naturally detoxing enough and can't handle the detoxing that goes on with our periods.

I always do better w/ PMS when I increase detoxing more - ESPECIALLY gut binders (remember the gut-brain connection). Diet is key - we tend to eat more sugary/simple carbs during our periods because of "cravings" but this just increases toxins and PMS. Try also increasing Pinella and burber to twice or even three doses/day.

I hope you're feeling better - I agree - this is an AWESOME forum! We're all learning from each other.

-p
Posted 6/1/2017 6:30 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you very much for all this very helpful information! You are wonderful!!

Regarding Babesia, my LLND did wonder whether I may also have it, as I suffer from air hunger a lot (we're just not sure if it's due to asthma or Babesia). I've only been tests for one strain, so may pay for further testing to be sure. I haven't had any cherry angiomas.

My herbal protocol is set by my LLND, so I assume she will be introducing other herbs over time. My guess is that she started with Hottouynia only because my body was very weak and highly symptomatic (and very reactive). She also gave me Artemesia, but instructed me not to start until I feel more stable. However, if you could suggest additional herbs that are effective for Bart, I would love to hear what else I can try. (BTW, I did let my ND know about the bruising and red spots).

Finally, I realised that I took a lot of NSAIDs over the weekend due to a back injury and bad migraines--perhaps the bruising could be due to this in conjunction with the Bart progression....

THANK YOU again. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all your amazing advice and support! smile
Posted 6/1/2017 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Reply for #1 = Might lean with Girlie on the babs. At first we thought my spontaneous bruising was from babs, and the ruptured blood vessels (look similar to a blood blister but flat and w/o pain) from Bart.
Now I'm no sure if the bruising was also from Bart.

I also use to wonder why these sx were happening.... was I killing them, or were they flaring and killing me. I think it is the later. The return of the ruptured vessels was one of the first sx to return when I relapsed two years ago after abx free for three months.

No comment on question #2... wrong gender.
Posted 6/1/2017 7:19 PM (GMT 0)
Whenever my LLMd does a rife treatment for bartonella, about a week later, I get a set of scratch marks on my inner thigh. It will alternate from left to right side. So far it has happened a week after, three times in a row.

I also re started Houtunnyia about three weeks ago. A few days after starting back up on that again, the familiar "claw marks" appeared on my inner thigh.

I also wondered if this was just the Bartonella getting stirred up and "pissed off" and active or if it was die off?

Don't know.....If anyone has any theories let me know.
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