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Is some of reason that some abx are antinflammatory

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Posted 6/7/2017 3:42 PM (GMT 0)
Speaking with Infectious disease Dr her comment to me was that "perhaps the reason that certain abx works on you is that it is a antinflammatory drug" we were talking about vancomycin. I wonder is some of the cause of healing with abx is this logic?
Posted 6/7/2017 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
It probably plays some role. Not sure how you'd quantify it.

We know that a lot of people experience an increase of inflammation when they start treating too.
Posted 6/7/2017 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
It does help a bit - but there is not enough anti-inflammatory action to abx to actually take care of most people's Lyme inflammation. The ID doc was grabbing at straws with this statement.

I agree with Mustard Seed - not sure how it would be quantified, and there is generally quite a bit of inflammation to deal with during the course of the infection(s).
Posted 6/7/2017 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
Bacteria cause inflammation. Therefore, killing bacteria (like with antibiotics) will decrease inflammation. Sounds like the ID doctor was pulling excuses out of you-know-where.
Posted 6/7/2017 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
tcoach,

The statement your doctor made is actually quite loaded and goes back to the divisiveness in the medical community.

I've heard other doctors say the same thing and have seen some research studies on pubmed that discuss the anti-inflammatory effects of certain abx.

I know of one animal study that looked at ceftriaxzone and it's effect's on pro-inflammatory cytokines.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22710775

Though it was able to reduce the number the pro-inflammatory cytokines I don't believe they fully understood the mechanism of action nor have I seen much explanation for anti-inflammatory effects of other abx.

What's interesting is that a few studies were done with PTLDS/Chronic Lyme patients and positive results were seen with ceftriaxone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17928580
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12821734

An ILADS doctor and an IDSA doctor will interpret these with different lenses. ILADS will say it's eradication of chronic/persistent infection, IDSA will say its placebo and anti-inflammatory effects.
Posted 6/7/2017 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
Dr M (galaxy Lab/Bartonella) - in his webinar mentions that when patients start with the biaxin there is some pain relief due to anti inflammatory effect of the abx.

I have taken biaxin a few times over the course of treatment and it didn't have that effect on me
Posted 6/7/2017 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
If ibuprofen 600 couldn't touch my symptoms i don't know why i'd expect an antibiotic to be antiinflammatory enough. Nor would that explain the fact that people have herxheimers. ID doc is just parroting the same old dogma trying to justify the anti-chronic lyme movement even when it's scientific viability is dwindling. It wouldn't be such an insane suggestion if it weren't so predictable from their kind.
Posted 6/7/2017 10:34 PM (GMT 0)
In my case NO. I had the same thing said to me about Biaxin and it goes back to the prejudice medicine has towards Lyme. The same Dr. never once bothered to question what anti inflammatories I had taken and what the results were? He had already decided that I was full of it and started grasping for straws to dismiss both my symptoms and the effect of the anitibiotics. Had he done his job and taken a proper history he would had known that no anti inflamatory ever came close to doing what the antibiotic did. I had used natural things like diet, turmeric and fish oil. I used over the counter and prescriptions NSAIDS and even prednisone with little to no benefit.
It is funny to me that they are so reluctant to admit that people are infected. It is an antibiotic, it's primary function is to stop/kill bacteria. You would think that if you responded positively to the drug the primary cause of your symptoms should be an infection, but not with Lyme. Instead they try to blame the results of the drug on secondary or tertiary side effects.
Ask yourself have you ever felt that way from an anti inflammatory? If no this should be a big eye opener for anyone claiming to be a health care professional.
Posted 6/7/2017 10:54 PM (GMT 0)

gregkdc said...

It is funny to me that they are so reluctant to admit that people are infected. It is an antibiotic, it's primary function is to stop/kill bacteria. You would think that if you responded positively to the drug the primary cause of your symptoms should be an infection, but not with Lyme. Instead they try to blame the results of the drug on secondary or tertiary side effects.
Ask yourself have you ever felt that way from an anti inflammatory? If no this should be a big eye opener for anyone claiming to be a health care professional.

That isn't what Dr. M (Bart guru) is saying. He isn't denying the patients have bartonella, but claiming that his patients feel somewhat better on biaxin soon after starting because of the anti inflammatory action of the med.

I wish it worked like that for me!
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