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Herxing w JK, add something w it? Avoiding ABX.

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Posted 6/13/2017 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hello again,
Almost made it to three mos off ABX feeling well when knee swelled up, achey back and legs crept in. Besides healthy eating, turmeric and cholestramyne for possible mold , I started up Japanese Knotweed, 6 drops 2x a day. I am pretty sure I am Herxing from it pretty badly. Should I be restarting the ABX? I've read that I'm stirring up the Lyme w JK but then not killing it? Is that true at all?
Really don't want to take the Abx again, since yeast problems, etc. my Dr seems just as perplexed. I did test positive for Marcons, no determination if mold is actually present in the home yet. Totally confused and on a roller coaster. I do ice the knee and take salt baths, still in pain. I know I'm confusing case, any help greatly appreciated.

Post Edited (pinkroses) : 6/13/2017 11:50:46 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/13/2017 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hi pinkroses -

Sorry you're experiencing sx!

I'm pretty certain that JK is an antimicrobial so you're herxing a bit. Buhner uses it in conjunction with a few other herbs so I wouldn't take it alone for an antimicrobial protocol. You might just need to broaden your tx a bit w/ a few more herbs for comprehensive coverage.

Also - you might want to add a subject title to your post so it catches the attention of more members!

-p
Posted 6/13/2017 5:52 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you, just did add a subject. What would you add? I am staring at my Cefuroxime and Mepron wondering if I should try a few weeks worth? Or is that even worth it?
Posted 6/13/2017 7:29 PM (GMT 0)
Bumping for more responses!

-p
Posted 6/13/2017 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
Is it because you stopped the abx too soon...or is it because you started the JK and you're herxing...that's the question....maybe both.

It will take you awhile to get the doses of the herbals to a higher amount....

Maybe give it a little longer - and detox to see if you can get a handle on the herx.
Posted 6/13/2017 9:23 PM (GMT 0)
" I've read that I'm stirring up the Lyme w JK but then not killing it? Is that true at all?"

No. Buhner rationalized JK for it's antiinflammatory properties because there wasn't enough evidence that it was active against Lyme, but it is a strong antibacterial and from personal experience very effective against Lyme. It can cause herxing, but it will also subside as treatment progresses. For that to happen i find that i need to lower the dose so that the herx is manageable. Otherwise the process just becomes catalytic. Think about it. A herx is caused by the release of antigens which triggers an adaptive immune response which kills more bacteria which releases more antigens which triggers more lymphocytes which kills more bacteria.... You don't want to be killing a bunch of bacteria and simultaneously triggering your immune system to do the same thing. A little at a time. Let it subside. Increase the dose. Repeat.

However, sometimes a relapse and herx are hard to distinguish. If you have symptoms right after a dose it's a herx. If you're getting symptoms 12 hours after a dose it's more likely a relapse. But it's not always clear. Give that a good thought and see whether the answer is to increase the dose (relapse) or decrease it (herx).
Posted 6/13/2017 9:48 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much this definitely makes sense! I agree, I'll hang in there. It's 5:45pm now and last I took the JK was 7am so it's been almost 12 hrs and I do have some pain still. So hoping it's not a relapse, I have to persevere. The cholestramyne is excellent at binding with the toxins, so hoping that'll help, although I have to carefully space it out so as to not let it bind w the JK! I appreciate the advice you must be experienced.
Posted 6/13/2017 9:55 PM (GMT 0)
Experienced with being in pain and failing to treat successfully, yes XD

So in my experience with that... i've found that 3x a day at lower doses is better than higher doses 2x a day. Do what you want with that info but i feel that maintaining a relatively constant level of knotweed prevents the ups and downs and keeps things pretty even. Otherwise i'm relapsing mid day.

And having pain wasn't so much my concern. That can take a while to go away. It's when the pain only shows up many hours after a dose that i get suspicious that the dose has worn off and it's coming back
Posted 6/14/2017 12:04 AM (GMT 0)

Psilociraptor said...
"

However, sometimes a relapse and herx are hard to distinguish. If you have symptoms right after a dose it's a herx. If you're getting symptoms 12 hours after a dose it's more likely a relapse. But it's not always clear. Give that a good thought and see whether the answer is to increase the dose (relapse) or decrease it (herx).


A herx can most definitely happen 12 hours after a dose. It can take awhile to get into your bloodstream.
Also, depending on the half life of the antibiotic. For example doxycycline - half life of 18-22 hours.
So, 12 hours later - there's most likely more than half of it in your blood stream.

.... the herx is caused by the die-off....and the toxins creating inflammation, etc. - resulting in symptoms.
This may happen after several days of antibiotics...when there is a toxin overload.
Posted 6/14/2017 12:27 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you, makes sense also. So at 8:30 pm I'm deciding to skip this evenings JK dose, detox and take a salt bath. I'm not thinking about Abx, want to avoid. I appreciate all this advice it's very comforting. I do hope I rid myself of this someday soon, I'm hopeful.
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