Can herbs be really making me herx this bad???? Or is it infections getting worse?

OMG

I would be dead even with 1/4 of what you are taking.

Herbs are not to be taken freely because 'they are herbs'.

If you are reading about lyme for as long as I have been, you'll see that some people barely react, improve or herx with antibiotics but will violently react to some cocktail of herbs (such as the ones you are taking!!!).

Herbs can put a person on her / his knees, and that is literal!

I would back up the herbs, take binders (that I don't see in your list), then re-start slow, at lower doses.

Buhner gives good info on dosage.

First I had to understand a herx. I got here and that was all I read on this forum and it scared me something awful. So I studied what was a herx. I figured if I knew how it came about, I could avoid it.

I had enough pain and suffering without adding in more. So my first objective was to figure out this herx thing and avoid it like it was a whole new disease.

www.tiredoflyme.com/the-herxheimer-reaction.html

The preventative response to dealing with a Herxheimer Reaction involves a treatment protocol that not only kills and reduces the load of Lyme bacteria within the body, but that same treatment protocol includes a consistent detoxification and inflammation reducing component as well.

Ah ha moment. Balance is the key!!! So somehow I had to kill bugs at a rate my body could handle getting eliminated from my body.

This sounded like a slow, steady process.

While doing this slow, steady process I still had lyme growing and roving in me. It felt to me like it was looking for a place to take up residency. No huge changes in my herbs, but I would all of a sudden have a new unusual pain. Always tempting to run to the ER in case it was something more horrible than lyme. I had to get used to those new and roving pains.

Then on top of all of that, lyme disease will wax and wane. One day I felt "normal." Thoughts ran through my head - "what if I imagined all those other pains?" A day later and I was back to sick and hurting.

I learned that I could not count on lyme to act in any predictable way. I just had to do "my job" (believe me, it is a full time job) in slowly treating, detoxing gently, eating properly and getting as much sleep as I could.

I hope this is helpful.

When using individual herbs, it's actually better to start each of them one at a time and get up to low doses and add in another one - then once on most of the herbs at low doses, raise them one at a time very slowly. The herbs have synergistic effects on each other - they work together to make a much stronger treatment.

The combination products like Byron White, Beyond Balance and others should be started at low doses and built up slowly as well, but you likely need to be on full doses (or close) before adding in a different treatment for a different infection. Otherwise you will have herxing from different infections all at the same time.

I herxed better on smilax and andrographis with bee venom than i ever did with iv rocephin and zithromax.keep pluggin away

As Buhner says over and over, we don't all need the same dosages, so raising up to the full dose on one herb before adding in another could also get some people in trouble with serious herxing - because as the other herbs are added in, the synergy begins and the herbs will actually be more effective.

This is why we suggest that herbs be started at low doses, as close together as possible (taking time to get past the herxing of each one that may occur).

While there is no one right way, this is what we suggest simply to help keep the majority of those using herbs on their own safe.

Evanston1 a high fever for too long is not good. You really need to get that fever down.

I highly suggest that you lower your doses and level your body out before going up on any herbs at this time.

I am surprised that your fever did not alarm your LLMD. Did he think it was unimportant? Did he not offer anything for relief?

I would write him back and express your concerns and ask him what he suggests to do.

Sorry you are going through this.

Oh and one other thing. The objective is not to get to the full dose as prescribed by Buhner. The object is to get to "your" maximum dose. This will vary from individual to individual. Hubby and I noticed that right away. I could take a lot of Japanese Knotweed and he could not and he is a big guy.

Oh yeah, in my case herbs have caused some wicked herxes. Even more powerful than abx at times, I wouldn't underestimate them, these can be incredibly powerful substances. The herx responses I engendered when I first started treating were insane. I remember taking a couple drops of cryptolepis and it was like a lightning bolt, the herx flared my symptoms (pain in lymph nodes behind/under ears, fatigue, deep severe sharp pain in back of head). I quickly learned that when I stumbled across an effective antimicrobial, whether herbal or pharma, I could engender nasty herxes. How much someone herxes is likely due to specific combo of pathogens and immune system genetics I would guess.

Personally I pursue combo treatments of pharma and herbs. You might consider easing up and seeing if symptoms calm down that would likely be good indicator these are herx symptoms. Even consider taking couple days off from antimicrobials. I speak from experience that getting sucked into herx-vortex is no good, very draining psychologically and physically, when I get sucked into that I need to take a break, regroup, then restart meds but at lower doses. Key is finding pace of treatment that works for you and your case and situation regardless of what "standard" dosing entails (and given your work/family responsibilities you might need to be a little less aggressive in treatment). This is a marathon, each patient needs to find the right treatments and pacing for themselves, no one else can determine this for them. And I would not at all be surprised that the herbs are causing a herx in your case but of course this can be tricky to say for sure, but my guess is yes this is herx response.

And of course I'm like you, I hate that there is so much guess-work, trial and error, gaps in data and information. I read as much as I can about these diseases, treatment strategies, try to learn from patients and doctors and have had to do a lot of trial and error (I've actually learned the most from other patients and their stories and experiences). Ultimately my treatment choices and strategy has come down to seeing what works for other patients, then tailoring treatments based on how I respond, intuition, and indirect evidence of what seems to work and not work. It is not perfect but it is the best we can do with current tools. I also always try and rotate antimicrobials once I hit plateaus...

Good luck!!! you will find the right way to get there!!!

(and of course detox detox detox!)