Buhner protocol help

I have multiple infections like lyme, Bart and babesia, I want to start Buhner protocol. Is there any combined protocol for that? I have all the books but I am confused where to start? Also, it says to take herbs for 30 days, but i have heard we need to take them for a full cycle of RBC division, i.e. roughly 5 months, If I opt for all 3 at once, wouldn't that me too much? I would like to get a feedback If anyone has done experience with Buhner protocol. Thanks.

Yes I have that book, but since I have other confections, and one protocol might take a year to get better, i want to treat Babesis and barts too. My Bart is predominating, I know. Also in book, i don't see, Japanese knotted mentioned as anti spirochetal unless I am missing it, but online resources says it is. If that is true, I can remove andrographis for knowing replace with side acuta. Thanks.

PeteZa said...
Do you have Buhner's book Healing Lyme, Second Edition?

That is the book you want. If you go to Chapter 8, there is the core protocol. I don't remember seeing anything about taking the herbs for 30 days though??? You want to take the herbs until all symptoms are gone and then continue for added insurance for another 2-3 months.

By the way, Welcome her and so sorry you have lyme and co-infections. Have you read the first thread, New To Lyme? It is full of information.

Let me know if you have more questions about the Buhner protocol.

Thanks 1000Daisies for detailed input.

Combination is a good idea. However, to start with, i thought I would try individually to observe any adverse reaction and later I will shift. also, I have read somewhere, their combo are less potent than individual extracts. What is your opinion? Are you taking other supportive herblike Milk thistle, I am already taking tons of other supplements that has made my lyme body and brain more like a functional human. If i have to pick atleast one killing herb for all three B's what would you recommend?

I have added in cart:
Sida acuta, hottunia, JK, so far.

Also, I am planning to order from sage women because their prices are significant less than woodland when order adds up. Do you have any experience with them?

I see you are treating your kids and have come long way, How you all are doing?

Thanks.

PS - Sage Woman is a great source for herbs.

Hi Petza! Thanks for sharing your story and feedback. I am in same boat, before getting diagnosed for Lyme, I already did manage to control lots of my symptoms, through detox, supporting gut, supplementing vitamins and mineral, i have had a long road of research and experimenting before landing here.

I agree with you we need to support our body to keep pathogens at bay, but at the same time, I feel there is need to mop out the excessive load of microbe attacking on our vital organs. I know if I go slow that route, my heart can give up anytime. I am detoxing and would like to know what you did for detoxing. I am taking charcoals, Ayurvedic panchkarama, which in one sitting include deep massage, followed by herbal sauna and Ayurvedic form of enema. I know the difference when I forget to take charcoal for 2 days in a row. Once my microbial load is low, I am planning to add the collagen support. Right now, I am already on too many pills, Milk thistle, ashwagandha, multi, zinc, magnesium 3 forms, phosphatidyl choline, probiotic, SB, and samento, banderol and many others. I am way better than what I was one year before, but still sick because all those microbes eating up my nutrients. I have taken a break from gut supplements, which i took for 6 months.

I am glad I found this group and quite hopefull i will be led to normal well being from here.

PeteZa said...
I, on the other hand, did one herb at a time and moved up rather quickly, with no herxing. BUT - and this is huge - I have detoxed for years before I ever got lyme. All my systems were in top shape pre-lyme. I also had no stress in my life, like a job, kids, money problems, etc. And we eat organic pretty close to all the time.

So, for me and hubby to do Buhner's it was quick, in lyme time.

However, both hubby and I started with Beyond Balance, which is a combo herbal. And, even though we detox like crazy on a daily basis, we did Beyond Balance Tox Ease GL. We did both of these herbal combos along with Buhner's protocol.

So I really think both ways are great!

What we found was that we both required individual dosages and types of herbs. He needed some herbs that I did not need and vice versa.

inom said...
Thank you Girlie

What is the average time frame, we need to take herbs to bring disease in remission. I am also taking antibiotics, which I will discontinue once i am on full dose of herbal protocol.

Girlie said...
Hi inom - welcome to our community!

People will often start with Buhner's core protocol for lyme...and then after several months on it, slowly add in some herbs for the coinfections.

Many of Buhner's herbs do have antibacterial properties: Japanese knotweed, houttuynia, Istatis,alchornea cordifolia, sida acuta, cryptolepis, etc. (This isn't a complete list)

yes, taking herbs together is better - as they work synergistically.


So, good to start with one...low dose...titrate up for a few weeks...then add in the second one...again low dose.

I have used both Woodland Essence and Sage Woman Herbs...both on Stephen Buhner's recommended sources for herbs.

We do recommend all new members look through/read the information in the "New to Lyme?..Start Here!" thread
Lots of useful information there.

There isn't really an average time. But with chronic Lyme - you can expect it to take a year or longer - whether it's herbals or antibiotics.
Some people it takes several years.

Yes, after firing my 1st LLMD, I went to the second one and said "I'd like to do an herbal protocol for lyme." He put me on Beyond Balance MC-BB-1 and Tox Ease GL. They were easy peasy but I thought things were going way to slow for me. So I bought all the Buhner books and dove in and added Buhner's core protocol. Then at the end when I was almost totally healed, I did Cryptolepis and Houttuynia in case I had Babs or Bart. I did them for a couple of months and then quit all the herbs.

Hubby never did Crypto or Houtt!! Go figure, the stinker.

inom - here is a thread where I talk about what I was doing for detoxing. www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3602759

I also took a lot of pills, probably about 20, 2 times a day. And I did tinctures 3 times a day. I had so many pills that they would not fit in my pill minder container. I had to use 2 containers.

I am so sick of taking pills, that now, being well, I struggle to take a multiple. I'd much rather eat my way to health, but I know lots of nutrients are missing from our food now days.

Thank you Peteza and jinna for sharing your wonderful stories and experiences. I have been a herbal all natural person all my life, cooking everything from scratch, with 5 days/a week work out, so changing life style is not an option. Also, before getting diagnosed with lyme, (which I figured out myself after countless Doctors, money and time wastage), I have been on all herbal support immune, detox and what not, I have may be 200 herbal bottles in my cabinet, they have brought me to the place, where i am functional most of the day at home, but I really needed to add this anti microbial, which now I know i will be adding slowly.

Thanks again for your insight. I will be probably chime in If I have a question.
Good luck on your journey to good health.
Love......

Peteza! I just saw your detox protocol. i am pretty much doing same. And being from India originally, ginger, garlic, turmeric and lemon are part of our 3 meals, infact ginger is almost in every recipe, tea, soups, lentils, curries. I think that may be the reason, on abx, i dint feel much.

Last year, i took quercitin and other antioxidants, but i don't take them anymore. I am going to add Sarsaprilla, as detox when i start my herbal protocol in a week, Burber pinella dint help me, I think better than that my cardamom ginger tea was working. I feel I am all set and ready to go ahead.

Thank you for all your help.

PeteZa said...
I really agree with Jinna. I super supported my body with getting my immune system healthy and robust so it could do its job.

That is why there are probably many people out there with lyme and they do not have symptoms. Their immune system is keeping it in check.

I have said this over and over and I will say it once more. I really got to know my body because of lyme disease. I KNOW I still have lyme in me and probably will the rest of my life, even though I am "healed." Or call it remission, I have no idea. I have to be super good and not tip the scales on my immune system or lyme will rise in me again.

I helped my body learn how to control lyme. To me, this is the way I got well. And it was a long, slow process. Getting lyme under control is an unrelenting journey. It is not easy. There are points where you feel you will never get well. Then one day, a symptom is gone. The next week another is gone.

If you stay the long steady course of detoxing, eating well, no stress, and treatment, it will come for you also. Slow and steady wins the race.

Hi KYLEb23,
welcome to our forum.

Make sure to start with only one herb at a low dose...then slowly build up the dose for a few weeks...then add another herb

It takes time , but it is important to know how you react to each herb, that way if you are allergic or cant tolerate one you will be able to isolate that herb and know which one caused it.

Always check for contradictions and side effects, I am not a medical expert.

From Stephen Buhner's "Healing Lyme Disease Co infections"

Japanese knot weed(polygonum) Tincture, 1/4-1/2 teaspoon 3X daily
EGCG with Quercetin 800 mg EGCG plus 1,200 mg quercetin daily.
L-arginine 500-1000 mg 3X daily
Cordyceps tincture, 1/4 tsp 3X daily
Sida acuta 30 -60 drops tincture 3-4X daily
Red root tincture 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon 3X daily
Milk thislte seed Stanardized extract, capsules 1200 mg daily
Hawthorn tincture 1/4- 1/2 teaspoon 3X daily
Rhodiola/ashwagandha combination, equal parts of each tincture:1/2 teaspoon 3X daily
Isatis/Houttuynia/alchornea combination, equal parts of each:tincture,1/2 teaspoon 3 X daily
Pomegranate juice throughout tha day
Vitamin E 200IU or 150 mg daily

I highly recommend ordering his healing Lyme co infections book for Bartonella. He explains Bartonella in detail and how each of his recommendations help to fight it.

Buhner also list many other recommendations for additional Bartonella symptoms so you can specifically target those symptoms.

Woodland Essence and/or Sage woman herbals are good sources for tinctures.

Bartonella is a tough co infection. No fun at all.

I wish you the best of Healing, Take care, Jo

Post Edited (goshawk) : 3/30/2018 8:44:05 PM (GMT-6)

Also, are herbs typically less harsh on the digestive system than antibiotics? Thanks

KYLEb23 said...
Also, are herbs typically less harsh on the digestive system than antibiotics? Thanks

Yes, generally they are. some of the herbs are antimicrobial, but I think the impact on the gut isn't as bad.

I would advise you to take probiotics daily.

KYLEb23 said...
Okay thanks I was confused because his online protocol said to take email the herbs for about 30 days but that was his old protocol I think

Which protocol are you saying to only take for 30 days? Bart? Is that what the website says?


I have the Bart book...and although I haven't read it recently...I'm sure it never said to treat for only 30 days.

I don't know anyone who has stopped at 30 days. It will take much longer than that if you have a chronic infection.