Suppressed B Cells? Anyone have this?

So I've been off abx for almost 7 weeks. The reason is to see where the I'm at with Lyme and Bart as I'd been on heavy abx for over a year. I see my Lyme doctor Monday and we will do some blood work to see where I'm at. There was another 6 week period early last year where we did the same thing but the blood work results came back positive so I had to go back on abx. I was taking Rifampin, Biaxin and Tindamax one week a month. All max amounts.

When we took blood my last visit I found that I had yeast issues which I've been addressing. But the other more concerning result to me was the fact that I have suppressed B cells. My doc suggested Samento to assist with this as there really isn't anything out there drug wise to stimulate the cells. I worked my up to 30 drops twice daily easily and been doing this almost a month. Saturday I will add Banderol.

Anyone else have this suppressed cells issue? I feel like I'm running on fumes most of the time. Very little energy, but by evening I feel like I've been working out as I look and feel tired. My body is obviously working to get this right. Just wondering if there are others out there that have had similar experiences. I should add I'm on a bunch of supps, just started colostrum and collagen which look promising. I'm under the care of both my doc and a Naturopath. They both talk to each other about my case. All my symptoms are in the back left portion of my head. I'm afraid the Lyme has done permanent damage to nerve or something back there...

Thanks for any thoughts.

For some, it's beyond repair. This is not a popular thought yet in the 'Lyme world', but it doesn't make it any less of a truth.

A great place to start reading about it (remember, this is not every Lyme patient), here is a great blog that I've been following: /lymecryme.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/3201/ I would caution people to keep an open mind - no one knows which side of the 'line' we stand on until we are there where we have to confront this issue.

Traveler said...
For some, it's beyond repair. This is not a popular thought yet in the 'Lyme world', but it doesn't make it any less of a truth.

A great place to start reading about it (remember, this is not every Lyme patient), here is a great blog that I've been following: /lymecryme.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/3201/ I would caution people to keep an open mind - no one knows which side of the 'line' we stand on until we are there where we have to confront this issue.

This scares the living crap out of me. Wow. Good info. Thanks.

Traveler, i see you are consuming depressive blogs now

believe me, you do have an immune response. If u would not have one, you will be long dead. Ask a guy with AIDS what is it not to have an immune system.

No, in our case we just have a sloppy immune response, but it is there. People without immune response, from AIDS are dead in 9 years on average, and will suffer horrific infections from opportunistic pathogens.

Even in case of aids, with a LITERALLY destroyed immune system, by supressing HIV with powerful antivirals, the immune function recovers. You need to take your meds for life, but u do recover. So the blog is both depressing and misleading , in my opinion ... what we have is NOT as bad as HIV....

mpost said...
Traveler, i see you are consuming depressive blogs now

believe me, you do have an immune response. If u would not have one, you will be long dead. Ask a guy with AIDS what is it not to have an immune system.

No, in our case we just have a sloppy immune response, but it is there. People without immune response, from AIDS are dead in 9 years on average, and will suffer horrific infections from opportunistic pathogens.

Even in case of aids, with a LITERALLY destroyed immune system, by supressing HIV with powerful antivirals, the immune function recovers. You need to take your meds for life, but u do recover. So the blog is both depressing and misleading , in my opinion ... what we have is NOT as bad as HIV....

Just trying to further educate myself, Mpost. It's all depressing when you even just look at the things that the majority of us face!

And while the majority of us do only have what you call a "sloppy immune system" (agreed), there are those that no longer can fight off the numerous things that they get exposed to. I talk with these people almost daily in an attempt to understand, learn and help if I can. They are very much out there, and it all started with these infections for them. (don't misunderstand the rest of this post, it's not directed at you personally, Mpost!)

And with the relapsing/remitting diseases we deal with, it's really not like it's a leap of faith to realize that there are people that end up with a destroyed immune system. I encourage everyone to either do all of the science behind it themselves if they are doubtful, or just accept that there are those (there's been a handful that have come through this forum while I've been here) that can't heal. And yes, it's scary, and we don't want to hear it - but denying that it's happening is like denying that MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) doesn't exist simply because there aren't many out there that deal with it. Or asthma, or Morgellon's or any number of other health issues out there.

Not every person heals from every sickness. This is a concept that we understand, now it's time to apply it to Lyme and company. Most of us make it out of this dire situation, but there are those that don't. They can't, and it has nothing to do with not trying hard enough, not doing treatments or whatever. It just is. We don't claim that someone that has gone through cancer treatments isn't healing because they aren't doing as they are told, we just understand that treatments don't work for every person. Same with AIDS. It's time we quit leaving these people out in the cold, alone. They started out with the very same infections we did, and it went haywire on them. We need to count our blessings if we are not in that group and show them some support - after all "except by the grace of God, there go I" - whether we have a specific belief in God or not, the sentiment can still remain.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm still not sure which side of the line I stand on. Watching carefully and keeping my treatments going to see if I can improve my health though.

And. please do not misunderstand this post! This is NOT an argument. I'm only stating the truth and hoping that others will be open to it as we have shut these people out for long enough.

april81972 said...
One of the things that came back with my last blood work was that my EBV was reactivated. I should take my wife's advice and not read some of this stuff. This next round of blood work results could be huge.

Actually, that IS something you need to know, and I would disagree. I learned a ton by going over my test results about what I was facing and how to heal. They can contain important information. If you didn't know you had reactivated EBV, it might go untreated, which is a huge problem for some people.

Luckily, many respond very well to antivirals (pharma and herbal) for EBV. But, EBV can also cause a lot of issues for many.

HIV is a T cell problem. Lyme AIDS is a B cell problem. There are over 300 types of acquired immune deficiencies, it is not synonymous with HIV.

/crymedisease.wordpress.com/2016/08/02/inhibition-of-apoptosis/

(I forget how to make links clickable, sorry!)

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 8/23/2017 3:34:56 PM (GMT-6)

This is pretty 'sciency', but if you want to know the bottom line for what I'm talking about, look at the very last sentence (I did break it up a bit for easier reading though):

Abstract
Lyme disease is capable of producing a wide variety of clinical pathologic conditions and lesions having in common histologic features of collagen-vascular disease. The plasma cell is an omnipotent inflammatory responder in most tissues involved by Lyme disease, ranging from relatively acute to lesions that have gone on for years.

Vascular thickening also seems to be prominent, and in the dermis is accompanied by scleroderma-like collagen expansion. The disease in some ways resembles the responses seen in lupus erythematosus such as mild cerebritis with lymphocytes and plasma cells in the leptomeninges. Lymphoplasmacytic panniculitis of Lyme disease resembles lupus profundus, both in the infiltrate and the plasma cell-blood vessel relationship.

The onion skin thickened vessels of the synovia resemble the vessels of lupus spleens, while the scleradermoid thickening of the dermis and various skin lesions of stage III Lyme disease suggest a collagen-vascular disorder. Finally, the perivascular lymphoid infiltrate in clinical myositis does not differ from that seen in polymyositis or dermatomyositis.

All of these histologic derangements suggest immunologic damage in response to persistence of the spirochete, however few in number.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2847622

IHL said...
The immune response had is one of down regulation, the opposite of autoimmune. When an immune cell munches up antigens that are tlr 2/1 agonists (ospA is pam3cys) then that cell is effectively rendered a zombie. It's our subclass 2 igg that tends to take the hardest hit. Viruses like ebv reactivate under these circumstances as the rule, never the exception. Those of us with HLA hypersensitivity responses to ebv are the ones who get autoimmune diseases like lupus or MS. The rest of us are left with a B cell AIDS like disease or "psuedolymphoma" outcome. It's a chronic post septic shock state, very serious disease.

Tlr 2/1 agonists like ospA from spirochetes cause immune tolerance and cross tolerance.

What are symptoms of this? What I'm more of less hanging onto is the fact that my body is trying to readjust to being on abx for so long, but this may not necessarily be the case completely.

Good to hear, April81972. I hope it's effective for you!

There was a study done on CFS patients and it had a 2/3 success rate in less than a year with Rituximab. So that's encouraging.

I am always hesitant to talk about this for the reason I previously mentioned, so I hope I'm not going to end up offending anyone talking about the science behind why we relapse and how damaged our immune systems really end up..

So would you not be very sick if this was your issue: colds, flus, etc?

If you're immune system was not functioning at all - would it not be obvious - we'd be sick all the time? (Meaning cold and flu viruses .. other infections.. etc)

Just trying to sort out how does one know if they're in the group of people who will never get well?