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Posted 9/18/2016 12:44 AM (GMT 0)
This questions has been on my mind a lot lately. Before lyme and my pregnancy, I was an active person, I worked out, ran etc.

Now over the past 2 years, I don't do much at all, if any. Besides walking. 

Do you think it is beneficial to exercise whilst treating lyme? Like cardio and weight lifting?

I always used to feel so good when I would exercise, but now I am afraid to because the condition of my joints and muscles. I have done a little bit, and I notice I am sore a lot longer after than I used to be. But that could also be because I'm a bit out of shape now.

Can anyone give me an example of a good workout for someone with lyme, and the basic length and intensity? I want to regain my strength. As well as I think exercise is good for detoxing.

Thanks.

Posted 9/18/2016 1:00 AM (GMT 0)
Exercise is good - as long as you don't overdo it.

It has helped me get my muscle tone back.

I do a warm up on our Elliptical - to get the blood flowing - anywhere from 3-10 minutes...and then I do a lot of stretches (I have frozen shoulder)...and some exercises with therabands, and free weights.

It's good for my mind, too..I feel like I'm doing something to help my body.
Posted 9/18/2016 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
Ah that's good to hear. I have been thinking about buying a second hand elliptical to have in our place. I really like them they are easy on the joints.

I've also been looking into hot yoga, there is a place near my house that does infrared hot yoga so it is like two detoxes in one.

It is time to get back on the horse and try again, and then try to make it part of my routine everyday.
Posted 9/18/2016 1:47 AM (GMT 0)
I exercised heavily before lyme and actually until I got diagnosed in May....although my fatigue was really setting me back. I been an endurance athlete for almost 2 decades and a figure competitor since 2010.
Lyme really took a toll on my workouts. I still lift and I did go running today (2 miles)...I don't seem to be able to run more often in a week. Again I used to run 20 to 30 miles a week perhaps not the norm but the norm for me.
To me taking easy means according to my standards.....If I could do 2 miles 5 times a week at this point would be great. Each of us as a threshold and intensity level even with lyme.
With undignosed lyme I was lifting heavy, doing squats, bench pressing.....I just could not carry on the workouts for 2 hrs.
Now I am afraid to push too hard because I do not want to be so tired that takes me 5 days to recover.
Evianangel.....Weight-lifting IMO is most significant than cardio when we have lyme. You can pace yourself and work on specific areas that need healing...I think one of the reasons I have not suffered the arthritic lyme is because of my joints being well lubricated. If I have pain, is mild and in a scale 1 to 10 is truthfully 1.5. Very tolerable.

I think lifting weights helps to get your body moving. I have not lifted in 3 weeks and only did a light workout of weights last week....arms mainly.

I think I would do hot yoga but I do not like exercise where there is not dynamics.....lol
Posted 10/22/2017 3:09 AM (GMT 0)
bumping.

Girlie,

At what point did you decide to start exercising?

I want to exercise but I'm scared. I fear it could make things worse.

I fear the break down in muscle tissue during exercise wont recover fully and further atrophy will occur.

Is this a legitimate concern or am I being paranoid?
Posted 10/22/2017 3:41 AM (GMT 0)
Except for a few months in the beginning (when I was in so much pain ) of symptoms starting, I have always kept moving - even if it was just going for a few walks per week and stretching exercises.

But I started doing specific exercises to get my ROM back and strengthen my muscles with therabands and weights in February, 2016.

I did them daily until a few months ago - now I do skip a day or two each week.

I don't think you're being paranoid. But it depends on how you feel during and after exercising. I always feel better after...and I follow up with a warm Epsom salt bath.

I do not lift heavy weights. I warm up on an Elliptical first - but I'm not on it long enough to get fatigued. Just to get my blood flowing.
If you overdo it and get fatigue - it may be too much.

I think if you feel fine after the exercises and the next day - then I think it is fine to do them.

When I first started, I would just do about three minutes on the Elliptical...and the excercises with weights and bands lasted about 10 minutes only.
I've increased my time now to about 20/25 minutes now.
My left forearm/wrist is a lot stronger now - still looks scrawny compared to my right..but feels good to lift a pot of water with my left arm now - which I couldn't do three years ago.
Posted 10/22/2017 3:47 AM (GMT 0)
I try to exercise and even lift some weights. It made me feel worse. Like I was hit by a truck.

Post Edited (chrisespo) : 10/21/2017 10:04:26 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/22/2017 3:49 AM (GMT 0)
I see.

I just think my nerve/CNS issues are too severe right now. I have reason to believe it speeds up the muscle loss. When the fiber breaks down (like it should) the normal rebuilding a healthy person experiences I don't.

That "rebuliding" is only possible with healthy muscle nerves that can function probably and communicate with the rest of the CNS.

I love exercising and wish I could do it now. But too scared.

I guess I have to be patient and get neuro lyme under control first.
Posted 10/22/2017 4:00 AM (GMT 0)
Dr Burrascano recommends exercising (not aerobic) while treating.

If you feel awful during and/or after then it's probably not a good thing.

But if you feel okay ... then it should be fine.


If you hurt after the exercising and the next day - then it's too much - it could be breaking down muscle.

I don't have sore muscles the next day.
Posted 10/22/2017 4:10 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, before I had Lyme I could walk or hike for miles and feel fine. If I walk a little bit, by the evening every muscle is extremely sore and stiff.
Posted 10/23/2017 6:54 PM (GMT 0)
I couldn't do anything thanks to the vertigo - Before Lyme, I used to do pilates twice a week, treadmill, light weights, hiking, yoga. Over the last month, I've worked up to about 1/2 an hour of light yoga. It has helped me so much. I started out doing 5 minutes and had to stop, but I kept at it. It has helped my joint and muscle pain so much. I still don't think I can do long walks, but the yoga has helped. And right now, no major positions, just a lot of floor stretching.
Posted 10/24/2017 12:30 AM (GMT 0)
"Heavy" cardio suppresses the immune system. Even "conventional medicine" has proven this. Maybe that's why Dr B suggests not doing cardio.

I am one who damaged many muscles by overdoing it before I was diagnosed. Its taking a long time to heal them. One test by Genova pointed toward muscle breakdown in the comments- I dont remember if it were proteins or acids, but it was elevated.

So having done what many are trying to avoid, I'd say just dont over do it. Take baby steps and track soreness days after before making changes. If you can pedal a bike - do that over running. Walking on gravel is better than pavement or concrete.

I found the foam fitness rollers very beneficial prior to lifting weights again. Its "forced" circulation - a good thing for the legs.

Just hiked a very rugged four miles yesterday on steep slick rocks, and got out of bed today just fine - Was pleasantly surprised. I was tempted to do more, but knew better.
Posted 10/24/2017 1:00 AM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
"Heavy" cardio suppresses the immune system. Even "conventional medicine" has proven this. Maybe that's why Dr B suggests not doing cardio.

I am one who damaged many muscles by overdoing it before I was diagnosed. Its taking a long time to heal them. One test by Genova pointed toward muscle breakdown in the comments- I dont remember if it were proteins or acids, but it was elevated.

So having done what many are trying to avoid, I'd say just dont over do it. Take baby steps and track soreness days after before making changes. If you can pedal a bike - do that over running. Walking on gravel is better than pavement or concrete.

I found the foam fitness rollers very beneficial prior to lifting weights again. Its "forced" circulation - a good thing for the legs.

Just hiked a very rugged four miles yesterday on steep slick rocks, and got out of bed today just fine - Was pleasantly surprised. I was tempted to do more, but knew better.

How did you "damage" your muscles?
Posted 10/24/2017 1:12 AM (GMT 0)
Exercising at your pace is helpful. Just be careful to assess where your body is in the midst of the Lyme batter and don't overdue it.

I was out of commission with a 3-month migraine and stopped all exercise for a while. Now, I'm returning to the gym and slowly adopting a new exercise plan. I'm building up to 30 minutes of light cardio -- swimming, stairclimber, bicycle -- and I'm also starting reformer pilates.

I feel building up to a sweat is useful in releasing toxins. I have had such muscle atrophy in the last year that I'm really starting at the bottom. But, just to be moving again in a purposeful way feels good.

I think any exercise can help your psyche tremendously -- release those endorphins ... even if you start out with just a few.
Posted 10/24/2017 1:25 AM (GMT 0)

KB69 said...
Exercising at your pace is helpful. Just be careful to assess where your body is in the midst of the Lyme batter and don't overdue it.

I was out of commission with a 3-month migraine and stopped all exercise for a while. Now, I'm returning to the gym and slowly adopting a new exercise plan. I'm building up to 30 minutes of light cardio -- swimming, stairclimber, bicycle -- and I'm also starting reformer pilates.

I feel building up to a sweat is useful in releasing toxins. I have had such muscle atrophy in the last year that I'm really starting at the bottom. But, just to be moving again in a purposeful way feels good.

I think any exercise can help your psyche tremendously -- release those endorphins ... even if you start out with just a few.

How long before you started introducing exercise again?

Like astroman experienced, I fear starting too early will damage muscles further.
Posted 10/24/2017 2:43 AM (GMT 0)
I say go for it. I've exercised steadily throughout this ordeal and had good and bad, but mostly good outcomes. Prior to diagnosis, I was told by the Neurologist that I had fibromiagia and they recommend light exercising to reduce symptoms. Obviously, WE know that means we are killing stuff. Some people say they "can't" exercise but I don't really know what they mean. Does that mean that they herx and just can't take it? If that is the case, IMO, you can't through this focused on what hurts vs grit and determination and focus on positive end goals - being strong and healthy.

Sometimes exercise brings on herxing, but I don't know about permanent damage. I guess if your thigh muscle can't hold up your knees properly, you can hurt your knees. You can start out doing wall squats... work up to a minute. Those are killer. Or just do chair squats. Sit in a chair and get up with just your legs. By the way, the absolute fastest way to get your mitochondria to recover is to lift weights. Google it! Use it or lose it, as they say.

I play 4.0 tennis and in the beginning, it was very hard to recover from a match. Sometimes I was totally wiped out for a day. But, then I would feel even better! As far as muscle tone goes, I am 52 and in menopause. I definitely don't build muscle like I did when I was younger, so I can't say it's Lyme specific. It has taken a long time but now I can bicycle up the steep hills in our neighborhood and not even feel out of breath or a thigh burn.

For what it's worth, every morning, I drink an amino acid powder/electrolyte/collagen/Vit C/Magesium mix that I created plus a tablespoon of MCT oil so I don't have to worry about digesting for maximum absorption. I think it has really helped me recover.
Posted 10/24/2017 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
People with Lyme who have really bad fatigue...may not be able to exercise...other than a few stretches or a short walk during the day.

You need to base it on your tolerance...how you feel after...and if you recover by the next day.

I haven't had the fatigue...mostly a lot of pain instead.
Posted 10/24/2017 5:36 AM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...

astroman said...
"Heavy" cardio suppresses the immune system. Even "conventional medicine" has proven this. Maybe that's why Dr B suggests not doing cardio.

I am one who damaged many muscles by overdoing it before I was diagnosed. Its taking a long time to heal them. One test by Genova pointed toward muscle breakdown in the comments- I dont remember if it were proteins or acids, but it was elevated...................

How did you "damage" your muscles?

From fitness training and years of a specialized endurance competition (cardio/muscle combined) while my muscles were not recovering properly - even two weeks after. So I was sore all the time. Not good. Injuries never fully healed correctly either.

Not recovering created many muscle adhesions which felt like crunchy "ripples/knots" in all major muscles as well as tendonosis at attachment points. Before lyme Dx, Drs could not figure it out, so like a determined competitor, I just kept doing it, and got worse over the years. Had to stop in 2005, as it was obvious something was really wrong, it became painful to just do everyday things (in addition to the many other increasing symptoms).

Now after a lot of manual muscle therapy there is improvement and I recover a lot better. Improvement only happened after ABX and then again after diet change. Before that, muscle therapy did nothing. Now I can gain strength again, but still sore in some areas- its a long term continuous project. I can now do various outdoor /seasonal trail sports at a recreational "fun" pace and recover (gym too). As a fifty something, I see no reason to compete again even if I could, did that enough in the past.

From my experience: Every time I "pushed the envelope" with exercise during ABX, I paid for it later. So pay attention, test yourself, but learn your temporary limitations.

Some lymies dont get sore, but dog tired for a week or so after exercise. I suppose to them its odd how some get extreme tendonitis and muscle pain, and they dont. As with all comments, keep in mind people have differing experiences.

Post Edited (astroman) : 10/23/2017 11:39:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/24/2017 1:50 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...

dacarte3 said...

astroman said...
"Heavy" cardio suppresses the immune system. Even "conventional medicine" has proven this. Maybe that's why Dr B suggests not doing cardio.

I am one who damaged many muscles by overdoing it before I was diagnosed. Its taking a long time to heal them. One test by Genova pointed toward muscle breakdown in the comments- I dont remember if it were proteins or acids, but it was elevated...................

How did you "damage" your muscles?


Not recovering created many muscle adhesions which felt like crunchy "ripples/knots" in all major muscles as well as tendonosis at attachment points.

Yes. This is happening to me. Not recovering/can't recover so actually losing muscle because the body can't rebuild when the fibers are broken down after working them out (this is what I'm hoping my most recent CNS protocol can really address).

And then the ripples and knots in the muscle. I think people with Fibro call them "rope like muscles" and "fibro knots". And we all know fibro is basically undiagnosed lyme.

I'm wondering when I will know that I reached the point of healing where I can exercise again. I miss working out and I'm being impatient. 8-9 months of physical therapy completely went down the drain after this recent relapse and now I have to start from square one.
Posted 10/24/2017 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
dacarte3-

I've read that people dx'd with "fibro" feel pain from just a light touch. I didnt.

I was generally sore all over, but it became painful when using/moving/engaging muscle.

Deep sleep probably plays a major role in muscle recovery. My sleep and muscle pain improved together now that I think about it.

I threw away lots of PT time and $ too. When you have "ropey / crunchy" muscles and tendons- those need addressed first before muscle rebuilding, very few PT places understand this. Thats where the pressure point / trigger point/ and myofacial release come into play- laying/pushing on golf and lacross balls, + whatever other triggerpoint release tools you can find/buy. Foam rollers dont go deep, but help on the surface.

Its important to address the core first: low back/glutes/hip flexors and upper leg muscles. If those arnt right, nothing else will be.
Posted 10/24/2017 5:36 PM (GMT 0)

evianangel said...

Can anyone give me an example of a good workout for someone with lyme, and the basic length and intensity? I want to regain my strength. As well as I think exercise is good for detoxing.

Thanks.



If you have not been exercising a lot I would highly suggest doing yoga and/or stretching and isometric exercises. The idea is to get your mobility and stability back while maintaining good posture and form.

I think it's easy to make the mistake of jumping into dynamic exercises that put to much strain on your muscles and central nervous system while your recovering from Lyme. Again I find that yoga is best for easing the body back into exercise especially because a lot of the movements can be modified to modulate the difficulty level. If you can perform approx. 20 minutes of this 3x a week without energy crashes and good muscle recovery then try reaching out to a personal trainer to get started on some functionally loaded exercise such as weight equipment in the gym.

I think exercise is essential to recovery from Lyme, but it needs to be implemented at the right time, at the right intensity, and in the right form. This is something you should definitely talk to your doctor about although trial and error is sometimes the only way we can figure things out. I personally train with heart rate and check my heart rate variability every morning to see how I am recovering. These devices are pretty cheap and can help prevent you from over doing it.
Posted 10/24/2017 8:47 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
dacarte3-

I've read that people dx'd with "fibro" feel pain from just a light touch. I didnt.

I was generally sore all over, but it became painful when using/moving/engaging muscle.

Deep sleep probably plays a major role in muscle recovery. My sleep and muscle pain improved together now that I think about it.

I threw away lots of PT time and $ too. When you have "ropey / crunchy" muscles and tendons- those need addressed first before muscle rebuilding, very few PT places understand this. Thats where the pressure point / trigger point/ and myofacial release come into play- laying/pushing on golf and lacross balls, + whatever other triggerpoint release tools you can find/buy. Foam rollers dont go deep, but help on the surface.

Its important to address the core first: low back/glutes/hip flexors and upper leg muscles. If those arnt right, nothing else will be.

Wow, so really square one. I can't just dive back in.

I'll research those techniques and start with that first.
Posted 10/24/2017 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
Totally agree that strengthening core is essential. Don't overlook the right kind of yoga and pilates to do this to get you restarted.

I think I added an extra year to my treatment by continuing to be active that first year. I would ride my bike every day, which would make me FEEL better, emotionally, but I was so sore and it never went away.

Then, 3 yrs later I'm nearing the end of abx tx and I start an antibiofilm protocol, and numerous catastrophes from overdosing aside... ALL of the muscle pain was GONE. So, was it due to biofilm this whole time? Or due to mycoplasma, which I think that biofilm busting released like a tidal wave - and is it possible that my immune system knocked down the myco a bit? Not sure.

But the other significant problem I kept creating by doing too much was constant fatigue - even exhaustion. It never went away as long as I was active. So, I stopped the bike rides and I feel better. Now, I try about 20 min of easy walking. I'd be much further along with getting back to my workout regimen if I hadn't overdone it in the spring with traveling 3 times for work... I have a long way to go but I'm so much better prepared to do it right this time.

Keep it low and slow.

-p
Posted 10/24/2017 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
Exercise, if you can. There are varying levels of impairment, across the board, with differing tolerances for physical activity, but at least try. As far as risks, I won't really get into those, not that I could. I don't know if it was mentioned here, but you'll see things like exercise driving bacteria deeper into the body, bringing about herxes, etc. I'm not implying I disagree, I just think it has its benefits too. I'd rather exercise than not.

Muscle ache and fatigue are normal, to an extent, but trust your gut; if you feel like death the day after, don't go. Take me, there are days where I'll hate myself for exercising the night before, but I'll still end up going again, because I can tell what's a normal reaction for that amount of exertion versus my body being in some type of crisis.

Of course, there are days where the ache, whether from exercising, infections, or a combination of both, convince me not to go. Heck, even my emotional state, as much as I try to motivate myself. But, even in those situations, I urge you to try and make the effort.

I pulled out some brain inflammation recently. It kind of impacted my personality. I'm more awkward, self-conscious again. Overstimulation worsens it. I just keep reminding myself to relax, be positive, and that everything is natural. I'm normal... looking. People like me. Be strong, confident. It sounds sad, but it works. Just think differently.

Anyway, yeah, I go, anyway, because I know it is good for me. I feel bad, when I can't make it to the gym, because of school, work, studying, or whatever. Emotionally, but also physically. There's just like a feeling in me that my body craves the workout.

But, I'm young... ish, and the neuro side has always been a bigger issue for me. We'll see how the years go.
Posted 10/25/2017 2:13 AM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...

astroman said...

dacarte3 said...

astroman said...
"Heavy" cardio suppresses the immune system. Even "conventional medicine" has proven this. Maybe that's why Dr B suggests not doing cardio.

I am one who damaged many muscles by overdoing it before I was diagnosed. Its taking a long time to heal them. One test by Genova pointed toward muscle breakdown in the comments- I dont remember if it were proteins or acids, but it was elevated...................

How did you "damage" your muscles?


Not recovering created many muscle adhesions which felt like crunchy "ripples/knots" in all major muscles as well as tendonosis at attachment points.

Yes. This is happening to me. Not recovering/can't recover so actually losing muscle because the body can't rebuild when the fibers are broken down after working them out (this is what I'm hoping my most recent CNS protocol can really address).

And then the ripples and knots in the muscle. I think people with Fibro call them "rope like muscles" and "fibro knots". And we all know fibro is basically undiagnosed lyme.

I'm wondering when I will know that I reached the point of healing where I can exercise again. I miss working out and I'm being impatient. 8-9 months of physical therapy completely went down the drain after this recent relapse and now I have to start from square one.

There have been many posts on muscle soreness here, its a monthly topic. But....ropey, crunchy, knoted, muscles are way beyond just being sore.

And you say your getting like that. This is a rare condition that warrants a different approach than everyday soreness. If you realy are experiencing this, just "going for it" is not a good idea. Again, this is nothing like general soreness that many experience.

It can limit range of motion so much that you cant do yoga. Tight knotted muscles in a static contracted condition can not stretch. Tie a knot in a sock, then pull on it. The knot gets tighter and the sock is shorter. **Areas like this need to be manually worked out before yoga or attempted stretching**. Individuals who have not experienced it would not know what its like, thus, do not understand this, including (unfortunately) some fitness instruction professionals. Lots of you-tube vids about this though.

The reason core is so important is everything is linked/attached to it. Its need strength to remain properly aligned when your stronger limb muscles are torquing on it.

Healthy muscle is not only strong, but relaxes tension free when not contracted. Muscle imbalances left in continuous tense state are almost a guarantee for future nerve impingement pain and muscle spasms. At least 50% of low back problems are from overly tense/imbalanced/injured/ knotted(shortened) Quad, hamstring or glute muscles pulling down or twisting the pelvis (weak core adds to it), creating lower vertebra nerve pain. That combination easily creates havoc but can be reversed by healing knots and strengthening the core.

For starters go slow and be consistent with out going overboard. Work on certain muscle groups one at a time so you know the cause and effect of what you did the day before. Like supplements, dont do a bunch of new ones all at once. Once my muscles felt healthier, I then could start cranking up the weights increasing every week.

After two days in a row of rigorous hilly/rocky hiking and then fatbiking a few hours ago, I feel pretty limber and relaxed. This was not possible two to five years ago with out a week of pain and muscle, tendon tension afterward- from lack of proper muscle recovery.

Post Edited (astroman) : 10/24/2017 8:30:50 PM (GMT-6)

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