Do reactivated infections produce IgM or IgG antibodies?

LLMD Dr. J. has mentioned that IgM could be reactivation.

Here's what he wrote:

"In virtually all infections, the IgM class of antibody (immunoglobulin) appears first and therefore represents a marker for an early infection. In most immune models, the IgM antibody gives way to the well-known IgG antibody class, usually regarded as the major enduring antibody response in chronic infectious diseases or other immune models. In almost all infection models, after just a few weeks, the IgM antibody level wanes to the point of being non-detectable and does not recur. However, a confounding fact in Bb infections is that the IgM antibody may persist for years, a very unusual situation in most disease states. Logically, one would have to conclude that this reflects an ongoing reactivation or persisting and continually renewing infectious state of Bb infection. Most active diagnostic laboratories involved with LD tend to agree with this notion. "


Many of us have IgM positive on the Lyme WB - and it's not a 'new' infection....mine was 14 months old.


jemsekspecialty.com/laboratory-testing-for-lyme-disease/

I hope I'm explaining what I'm trying to say well, it's kind of difficult. I was IgM positive too, definitely not a new infection. But if I understand correctly Lyme is different in the prolonged production of IgMs because of antigen variation. I don't understand why doctors look for IgMs to confirm reactivated infections for things like EBV.

Post Edited (Kaitlan) : 2/1/2018 8:52:39 PM (GMT-7)

Anybody out there have a good understanding on what kind of antibodies are made when an old infection is reactivated? The immune system wouldn't make IgMs because it's not the first time the immune system is encountering the antigen, right?

- traveler
I'm not asking about borrelia or other pathogens that have antigen variation. These infections constantly change their antigen presentation so they're always appearing new to the immune system.

I'm just trying to understand why doctors look for elevated IgMs to confirm reactivated infections (excluding things like borrelia that have antigen variation). If I understand correctly IgMs wouldn't be made for old infections that are reactivated because the immune system is already familiar with the antigen.

Kaitlan said...
- traveler
I'm not asking about borrelia or other pathogens that have antigen variation. These infections constantly change their antigen presentation so they're always appearing new to the immune system.

I'm just trying to understand why doctors look for elevated IgMs to confirm reactivated infections (excluding things like borrelia that have antigen variation). If I understand correctly IgMs wouldn't be made for old infections that are reactivated because the immune system is already familiar with the antigen.

Kaitlan - Which infections (other than borrelia and those with antigen variations) are you referring to - that show IgM for older infection - is it just EBV?

I have extremely elevated IgG to EBV, yet doctors say it's only a past infection because my IgMs are normal. Why are they looking for IgMs for reactivated infections? If it's an old infection that's reactivated then the immune system is already familiar with it and wouldn't make IgMs. (If I understand correctly)

-Girlie

Thanks, that table is helpful and confirms what I was thinking. I'm not the only one who has been told by their doctor that elevated IgG only signifies past, inactive infection if IgMs are normal. I just don't understand why they think that in the first place.

While I do agree with most of what Greatguy said, I do disagree with "viruses aren't treatable and actually aren't the reason for most of lyme victims and co's problems."

Actually, viruses are treated all the time, with anti-virals and we do need to treat viruses. For example, EBV left untreated can go on to cause all kinds of cancers and more. So to ignore these very viable and nasty viral issues, it's best to be evaluated and get treatment for viruses as well.

We often see high levels of viral infections with these tick-borne infections, that's because the immune system can't keep them in check, or prevent us from getting them once the immune system is compromised by Lyme and company.

There are even a few viruses that ticks can pass along with the bacterial and other things that they have as well, and some are really quite serious.

Have you ever considered treating it yourself? That's what I'm doing and it's really helped. For the most part, I'm just keeping EBV under control by using high dose Lysine, and watching to be sure that I don't get too much arginine in my diet/supplements. There are actually a lot of articles on this, surprisingly.

All of the infections I've tested positive for- bartonella, EBV, Parvo, HHV6, Mycolpasma, c. Pneumonia have all been igG. I haven't tested positive igM for anything but they're still treating me

Oh, I hear you, loud and clear, Kaitlan!! LOL! I do the same thing!!! I've been known to chase doctors down the hallway if they walk out of the room before I'm done with my questions! Drives me nuts that they think that we just "need to listen quietly and do as we are told" - they make mistakes and get lazy too!!! Besides, I want to know! LOL! Isn't that why they are there? To help us understand?

I only tested positive for Lyme and RMSF, and yet the LLMD I saw in the beginning said I had every tick-borne infection, but would not test positive for all of them because my immune system was too compromised to produce those necessary antibodies.

What I understand is not really enough about immune testing - there are some that show low C3 or low C4 immune markers, but not everyone will. Same goes for testing the CD57 - the values don't always line up with the clinical picture. Why? I haven't really figured that out yet, although I believe there may be others that have.

I would suggest that you start a new thread on this, then do your research on the suggestions that are posted.

What I do know is that just because we can test fine for something like EBV doesn't have much bearing on what Lyme does to the immune system for some. I tested with EBV levels off the charts back in 1989, and my markers have always been very high - no matter how sick I was from my other infections. Why is this? I really don't have the answers. Sorry!!! I wish I did though!! I'm definitely curious!