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Posted 2/9/2018 6:54 PM (GMT 0)
Has anyone successfully healed from long term bartonella without antibiotics?

What treatment worked for you?

Anyone successfully beat bartonella using Buhner's Bartonella protocol as given in his bartonella book?
Posted 2/9/2018 11:22 PM (GMT 0)
Not healed yet, but since July 2017 I have been on only Buhner herbals treating Bart and babesia(also a few for Lyme) , and I only reach around 95 to 98 % better. Probably 98 % most days.


Before this, from Sept 2016 to July 2017 I was on AbX and some herbals, not full protocols I had also thought I was 95% to 98% healed but when switching to herbals it stirred things up immensely(strong herxing) and took me over a month two different times to get stabilized again.

This month llmd changed some things and I am herxing mildly, but I'm still on herbals.

It is taking time for me but I also am fighting candida since July.


I will add that when I say 98 %, I still have a few mild symptoms here and there most days(had a few weeks with no symptoms twice since July) .

I am so much better than I was in the beginning but I will not settle for just 98% so I am still plugging away at it. Just have to change things up sometimes.
Posted 2/10/2018 2:02 AM (GMT 0)
i've not heard of many folks strictly do buhners bartonella protocol and beat it. people seem to either do it at some point before/after/during abx or some other modality.

when you feel like crap all the time most will throw the kitchen sink at things to feel better.
Posted 2/10/2018 2:31 PM (GMT 0)

Rikky1 said...
i've not heard of many folks strictly do buhners bartonella protocol and beat it. people seem to either do it at some point before/after/during abx or some other modality.

when you feel like crap all the time most will throw the kitchen sink at things to feel better.

goshawk and Rikky,

Thank you both for the responses.

Yeah, Rikky, I think you're right. If I remember right, even Buhner's not satisfied with the bartonella protocol. My dilemma is that I really don't think I can do antibiotics for a couple of reasons. I'm allergic to quinolones and have a family history of sulfa drug reactions, although I don't know that I ever took a sulfa drug myself. I saw what bactrim did to my mother and no way am I doing that.

Now, I'm having bad problems with even short term abx. A year ago I took minocycline for 7 days. My symptoms increased while on it and then I ended up with horrible debilitating inflammation in my joints and tissues for two months after that. I don't feel like I ever fully recovered from that.

Then in December I took Augmentin for 7 days for a sinus infection. For a couple weeks before that, my joint stiffness and foot pain had almost disappeared. I did have a flare just before I started the Augmentin, so I can't fully blame the Augmentin for what happened after. I'm not even sure what happened. All I know is after I finished the Augmentin, the joint and tendon stiffness, foot pain, muscle stiffness and weakness, exercise intolerance, limited endurance, difficulty walking, and tissue pain all came roaring back much like after the minocycline. I also had a really bad flare of what I assumed was bartonella symptoms, including all I just mentioned plus lots of skin involvement - bumps on my abdomen and back, irritation and brighter color on the Bart streaks on my abdomen, swaths of pink areas on my skin, and badly inflamed intestines. Then I started another period, so hormones were in the mix too. Right after that, I got shingles again after drinking bone broth for a few days.

When the bad flare started, I backed off by a drop or two of the killer herbs, and that helped reduce the inflammation some. I also started marshmallow and slippery elm and those are helping with the intestinal inflammation.

I feel like herbs are the only choice I have and I can barely tolerate those. I suspect I'm dealing with more and more infections. I know my mycoplasma IGG titers nearly doubled from a year ago. Chlamydia p. is still IGG and IGM positive. I'm sure I must have candida and probably parasites. I'm taking a broad range of herbs and supplements that hit many things, but I feel like I'm losing ground all the time.

I don't know what else to do except keep going. I don't want to quit, but good heavens, I want some kind of sign that what I'm doing is working or eventually will reduce some of this crap. I'm so tired of being in constant pain. I should be grateful. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking I'd rather have body pain over head symptoms any day. Well I got my wish!!! My head has been pretty good except for a couple brief bouts of anger, but my body has been taking the worst beating I've had in a long time. I hurt all over except my brain. It ain't fun.

Sorry for the whining. Thanks for listening.
Posted 2/10/2018 4:55 PM (GMT 0)
hey you aren't whining please don't think that. these infections are so difficult to tolerate no one has a clue except if you have or had it.

i've been dealing with debilitating symptoms for 3 1/2 years. it took a good 9 months to start feeling some relief and another 2 years to get a few of the major symptoms to become more tolerable.

i've been dealing with overall nerve pain for over 2 years and nothing i've done has had much effect against it.

so sounds like when you take abx you are hitting the hornets nest so to speak and killing off bugs and causing your symptoms to worsen (herx).

herbs are fine especially given your story right now. just go low and slow. maybe you should focus more on herbs that do 'everything else' but kill the bugs. that's buhners approach to use the bug killers last.

instead of going all over the place trying to treat too much stuff and getting yourself into a never ending herx cycle, maybe you want to step back and simplify your approach.

for example maybe start with CSA (cryptolepis, sida acuta, alchornea). This hits lots of stuff.

Cryptolepis is an antiparasitic, antimalarial, antibacterial, antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory, antiprotozoal and mildly antiviral.

Sida Acuta is an antibacterial, antimicrobial, antiprotozoal, antiinflammatory and hematoprotectant (possible side effect - tiredness or insomnia)

Alchornea is an anti-bacterial/fungal/microbial/viral/protozoan/malarial/oxidant/inflammatory

Start low and slow and only take other supplements/herbs that reduce inflammation, etc.

you can also pulse these like many LLMD's do. maybe a pulsing approach like Dr. J in DC uses. week 1 and 2 do MWF 2x/day then give yourself a week or two off the herbs and repeat. this gives your body time to rest from all the killing.

This is what I would do if i wasn't under the care of a doctor/herbalist.

Post Edited (Rikky1) : 2/10/2018 9:58:17 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/11/2018 10:50 AM (GMT 0)
I take Buhner Bart herbs (or most of them: sida, hout. Knotweed, and thistle) plus abart tincture (7 drops) and an about 97-98% there. I’ve been doing this protocol since November. I also take Coptis, chrysanthemum and activated charcoal for yersinia and suspected biotixij (mold). Lastly I takes BEC2x spray for MARCONS. I had been in a relapse for about a year and started Buhner herbs for Lyme in September with good improvement by November. Then I finally got a bart positive lab (after 7 years) which was nice as it confirmed what My llmd and I suspected clinically.

It was my idea for the Buhner hens. The llmd suggested abart, and the other things.

So now, Knock on wood, a bad day would be 95%. But I feel positive by summer I’ll be 99%. I’m Leary of ever saying 100% but am hopeful.

Hope this helps someone but I’m a big believer in the herbal approach after doing antibiotics for many years and having two relapses. Plus I find it empowering to mix my powdered herbs or (sometimes) encapsulate them. It’s like my own apothecary. And, I find it much more cost effective as my current powders will last 3-4 months vs 2 month of pre-encapsulated herbs.

Jason

Post Edited (JasonSinis) : 2/11/2018 4:01:05 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/11/2018 11:43 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for this Jason I’m relying on a 100% herbal protocol for lyme babs and bart so was worried after reading that it takes abx too.
It’s reassuring you are doing well. Wish you continued healing to get you to that 100% smile
Posted 2/11/2018 12:53 PM (GMT 0)
Everyone is different and responds differently but for me it seems to be working.
Posted 2/12/2018 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
jason have you ever taken any extended breaks off the herbs?

a few prominent LLMD's say you need to be symptom free for at least 3 months to declare yourself somewhat free of infection. if you are taking herbs every day and you feel fine then you never know what you'll be like not taking them and it may be a 'crutch' so to speak.
Posted 2/12/2018 2:24 AM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...




Yeah, Rikky, I think you're right. If I remember right, even Buhner's not satisfied with the bartonella protocol. My dilemma is that I really don't think I can do antibiotics for a couple of reasons. I'm allergic to quinolones and have a family history of sulfa drug reactions, although I don't know that I ever took a sulfa drug myself. I saw what bactrim did to my mother and no way am I doing that..

Sorry for all your suffering, WBF.

Just wanted to mention that you can treat Bart with other meds (besides Bactrim and fluoroquinolones) - Rifampin or Rifabutin is effective along with another antibiotic. (Minocycline, Omnicef, are two)

And perhaps a pulsing protocol like what Dr J prescribes where you're off abx more than you're on them each month may be an option.

I am not trying to convince you to take antibiotics...but wanted you to know there are perhaps still some options...if you find the herbs aren't working at some point.
It's always good to know we have other options.

I hope things improve for you soon ....
((Hugs))
Posted 2/12/2018 2:48 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie,

Thank you so much for your input. I will save this for reference. I really hope the herbs will work, but it's good to know there are other options. Because I'm so sensitive and toxic, it's probably best for me to stick with herbs for the time being. I love that I can tailor herb doses and combinations to what I'm able to tolerate or stop if and when I need to and not worry about creating drug resistant strains of bacteria.
Posted 2/12/2018 2:52 AM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Girlie,

Thank you so much for your input. I will save this for reference. I really hope the herbs will work, but it's good to know there are other options. Because I'm so sensitive and toxic, it's probably best for me to stick with herbs for the time being. I love that I can tailor herb doses and combinations to what I'm able to tolerate or stop if and when I need to and not worry about creating drug resistant strains of bacteria.

Remember - Go very low and slow with the herbals...as in one or two drops to start...and you don't need to get to the top dose.
Posted 2/12/2018 10:08 AM (GMT 0)
Correct. If you find a happy place stay there. The max for abart is 29 drops. I found 7 worked for me. And I started each herb in Buhner a protocol about a week a part. I never reached his max dose.
Posted 2/12/2018 10:41 AM (GMT 0)
I actually had a friend that did the full bart protocol that is on Buhner's site and felt completely healed after 2 months. I assume that she did not have a bad infection though. She also didn't work her way up, just went straight to recommended doses on day 1 (which I obviously do NOT recommended doing).
Posted 6/6/2018 1:20 PM (GMT 0)
jason have you ever taken any extended breaks off the herbs?

a few prominent LLMD's say you need to be symptom free for at least 3 months to declare yourself somewhat free of infection. if you are taking herbs every day and you feel fine then you never know what you'll be like not taking them and it may be a 'crutch' so to speak.

___

Rikky1-

Looking back I never answered your question. I am working under the plan that I'll take herbs until symptoms free for 2-3 months, then taper one a time and see how things go.

I was at 99% for 5 weeks, my LLMD suggested I stop ABART. I was good for another week, then got a sinus infection a week ago and two old Bart symptoms cropped up, so I'm back to 92-95%. Not sure itf it's the lack of ABART or the sinus infection (I was on amoxicillin) caused some problems.

So I've added Isatis powder to my mix and will go back on ABART for a challenge.

Jason
Posted 6/6/2018 11:49 PM (GMT 0)
Isatis can be powerful at least for me, maybe start slow with it. It is a great herbal for Bart though.

That is awesome you were at 99% for 5 weeks, I hope you make it back there soon and all the way to 100%!!!
Posted 6/7/2018 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
Ive been on it for a day and a half and have already noticed some symptom flare ups so something must be happening. I almost forgot what a nerd felt like. It’s been months.

Hopefully the herb has helped others.
Posted 6/7/2018 1:09 AM (GMT 0)
Isatis is powerful stuff be careful its a potent bug killer so is Houttuynia.
Posted 6/7/2018 4:18 AM (GMT 0)
Bvt ,zhang and rife knocked my bart down to a managable level ...working again pt
Posted 6/7/2018 5:12 AM (GMT 0)
I am functioning at about 30%! And getting more and more Bart nerve/ neuro stuff like severe tremors and burning feet
I also have wrecked adrenals
Does Buhner have protocols for this too?
Thanks
Posted 7/17/2021 5:24 PM (GMT 0)
Bump
WalkingbyFaith and everyone else, how are you by now with the bartonella? Did the Buhner protocol help you?
I'm going to start it again after my intestines recover from the two months+ antibiotics I took. Though since yesterday I'm taking doxy again to help my eye issues. My eyes have priority over everything else. I herx from tiny amounts of the herbal tinctures, so I'll go low and slow. I hope to hear some positive stories 🤞🏻 wishing you all tons of strength and all the best fighting those tiny monsters 💪🏻
Posted 7/17/2021 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
“ I herx from tiny amounts of the herbal tinctures, so I'll go low and slow. “

My advise: Just start with a couple of drops once a day for a few days and just one tincture at first - then twice daily , then three x daily.
After a few days - raise the dose by a few drops.
Then after a few weeks - add in the second tincture and do the same … etc etc.
Posted 7/17/2021 6:51 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you, Girlie. Which one would you recommend starting with, especially if the eyes are involved?
Posted 7/17/2021 10:32 PM (GMT 0)

cherrycola said...
Thank you, Girlie. Which one would you recommend starting with, especially if the eyes are involved?

I would start with Japanese knotweed - it’s good for both Lyme and Bartonella


Eyesight or eye pain.. or?
Posted 7/17/2021 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
Cherrycola,

Oh, wow! I don’t even know what to say. It would take writing a book for me to explain all that’s happened to me since this post.

I have extreme hypersensitivity to mold and mycotoxins and probably other fungal toxins (yeast, gut). Mold, it turns out, is enemy #1 for me. I have basically gone from one moldy place to a less moldy place that became much moldier over time to my car to a moldy house that was remediated unsuccessfully back to my car again.

I actually stopped all Lyme/co herbs except for Japanese knotweed a little over a year ago. I just restarted houttuynia. It has been a strange trip.

When I stopped houtty, I had been holding steady at 8 drops 2x day I believe.

When I got my new bottle a few weeks ago, I took about 20 drops at once to see what would happen. Nothing happened. It was really weird. When I started houttuynia, I started with 3 drops I think 3x day. It brought out new symptoms like electrical pains shooting through my head.

While I did get some symptom improvement in the first year on Buhner’s (especially small joint tightness and foot pain), I still had a lot of other symptoms likely from mold toxicity. For a time, I felt like I was in a perpetual herx. It wasn’t until I moved into my car and started prescription antifungals that I discovered much of the “herx” symptoms was from fungal toxins in my gut. I basically had a toxin producing factory in my gut.

about six months later, I started TUDCA Plus and got noticeable improvement from MCS, mold sensitivities, joint pain, muscle fatigue, toxin pain in my tissues, etc for a good 2 months. Then I started spending time at the house we had remediated and joint stiffness, foot pain, numbness, and more came back even though I remained on TUDCA.

Whether I will see any improvements this time with houtty remains to be seen.

I should add I have a long-term history of ropeworm (since 2015). I’m not sure positive what is causing what and how they all interact with each other. I am treating ropeworm again right now, and something is bringing out MCAS flares again. Not sure if it’s the ropeworm die-off, the single dose of oregano I took on Tuesday, or the houttuynia I restarted in earnest the first of this week.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 7/17/2021 5:47:48 PM (GMT-6)

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