my hunger hormone is stuck ON

For the last two weeks or so, I have been getting insatiably hungry after dinner. Only in the evening, only after dinner. A crazy, starving, anxiety-ridden HUNGER.

My problem is that my diet is so limited by sensitivities, Candida, and histamine/mast cells that I don't know how to stop it. My first suspicion is that I need more fat. It would make sense because I used to eat a lot, especially with mepron, but I've slowly become sensitive to every source. Peanut butter was the first to go. Almond butter now seems to be a problem as well. Coconut makes me itch. Avocados and most/all nuts are forbidden on a low-histamine diet. I've been drowning everything I eat in olive oil but its not helping.

Same with protein - nuts and anything but fresh meat is forbidden. I stopped the protein powder because peas are forbidden, and I was concerned about free glutamates, as Ive been having a lot of mental issues. But eating local, fresh or immediately frozen, meat and finding no-preservative wild-caught fish is *bleeping* expensive. My grocery bill has gotten ridiculous, as my diet as shrunk to almost nothing.

How do I get enough fat and protein on a low-histamine diet?!?!

I tried bulking up my food with psyllium husk and chia. Maybe I should try hemp protein? I read about chicory root, but I really really really really don't want to buy any more supplements. I have so many I spent so much money on then had to quit, bottles and bottles of unused pills that can't be returned or resold.

what if it's not dietary? my brain has been so off this month, I know there's all kinds of weird imbalances going on in there.

Well, we need fat. Our brains are made of such. I also need fat for absorbing medications, and all my favorite options - nut butter, coconut oil, avocado, are off the table.

1) I do not have protein-induced allergies or anything that comes up in a blood test. My sensitivities are many and increasing. Most cause neurological symptoms. Peanuts make me depressed. Dairy casein and corn-derived products give me rage within hours. Soy will make me physically ill in 20 hours. Gluten bloats me. Squash makes me itchy. Coconut oil just recently started making me itchy too

2)Candida symptoms and positive antibodies on blood test.

3) I'm trying to balance a diet for low histamine, low inflammation, Candida, leaky gut, etc. Meat has to be fresh because of histamine. The longer it sits, the more histamine develops. I am not supposed to have nightshades because of histamine, though I haven't noticed a correlation in eating them and how I feel. I'm kind of testing that now. I can't go through all the vegetables that are and aren't allowed. The histamine lists conflict, and of course I'm trying to stay low in oxalates. Beans are high in histamine AND lectins. Most nuts and seeds are as well. Root veg and fruit high in sugar and carbs are out because of Candida. I do eat fruit considered lower in sugar, but not much. The big gut healer, Bone Broth, is out because it's super high in histamine. All the "histamine" foods I can add back in after I eliminate them and find out individually which ones bring back the itching and mood swings.

4) I feel a million times better off dairy, soy, and corn. The others are a matter of healing leaky gut and reducing histamine. I do feel better on the strictest diets - much less bloating, less itching, less brain fog. It's just the insatiable hunger that's creeped up lately that's driving me crazy. And that happened when I cut out nut butter and coconut oil - both make me itchy.

5) MCAS is not hives and anaphylaxis for me, but some itching, mood swings, brain fog, acid reflux, increasing food and chemical sensitivities.

All those things - MCAS, Candida, Leaky Gut, Lyme, antibiotics - end up causing the same types of symptoms and work in this awful loop that cause and exacerbate each other.

I eat local farm-raised chicken, eggs, occasionally beef, and frozen fish. The most common veg I eat are asparagus, celery, cabbage, green leaf lettuce, zucchini, onions, garlic, radish, occasional sweet potatoes, carrots, snap peas. For grains, rice, quinoa, millet. I was having oatmeal but I wanted to eliminate it because it comes up on all the "bad" lists, and see if I feel better without it. I try to add psyllium husk and chia to bulk things up.

I try to tell myself "moderation" and allow myself more "unapproved" things but when the deep maddening itch comes back in my heel and legs, and I feel depressed all the time, I just don't want to eat those things anymore.

Hi, BabsBunny (perhaps my favorite screen name):

Of course, I agree with you that we need fat. But, we certainly don't need loads of it.

While you're obviously not doing so, there's a current fad of people gorging on fats, because they're "good" fats. In my original post, I was simply suggesting that whatever fat comes-along with the whole foods we're eating should probably be sufficient. Obviously, chicken, eggs, beef, and fish all have fat.

Someone put it to me this way: If a person eats a 2,000 calorie diet and wishes to keep their fat intake between 10% and 15% of calories, that's only 1.67 to 2.5 tablespoons of oil. Of course, that doesn't include any other items in the diet.

Anyway, whatever your dietary choices, I support your decisions. I've read many of your posts and it's obvious that you're an intelligent and informed person. So, please forgive me, if my tone and/or line of inquiry was off-putting or just plain annoying.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my original questions. I'd hoped that perhaps I could offer some advice, based on the challenges you're facing. But, after reading your responses, it's clear you've already done a lot of research, self-experimentation, and invested a lot of time and money into looking for solutions.

Alas, I regret that I don't have anything useful to bring to the conversation. I'm sorry you're suffering so much and dealing with so many hurdles.

Have you considered consulting with Joseph Cohen over at SelfHacked.com?

Sincerely,
The Dude

Georgia Hunter said...
How many calories are you eating on a daily basis? How much do you weigh? How tall are you? All are important when determining what is going on and why you are hungry.

I haven't counted calories in years. Just eat whole foods or processed snacks with simple ingredients. Meals generally include a meat, vegetables, some grain, and occassional piece of fruit, homemade GF bread, or rice cakes. Until recently I loved almond butter and nuts.
I'm 5'6" and just slightly overweight on the BMI (wretched thing), even though I've lost 30 pounds in the last 18 months and every time I scratch my back, my fingers slip in between my rib bones. I can see them, front and back. The weight is all in these American thighs.

The reason I suspect its fat, protein, or the low-histamine diet is because this came on quite suddenly along with a steep increase in neurological symptoms. The last Babs herx threw me into severe anxiety and depression, bradycardia, low body temp. At the same time I started a low-histamine diet, and in a few days noticed less acid reflux, and less itching. But getting itchy with coconut oil was a big blow. I didn't normally eat almond butter so much, but it was my last source of fat. I am tracking my diet with the Cara app, and it takes some time and adjusting to interpret but its pretty clear almonds, almond butter, and almond milk are all common on my worst days.

Now, that might be because when I feel bad, I freak out trying to remedy the situation - like increase my fat and protein intake to stop being hungry- or I'm too sick to cook so I have to go with my frozen leftovers and rely heavily on the pantry items - rice cake, almond butter, oatmeal. So whether almonds are the chicken or the egg, I don't know. Only an elimination diet can figure that out, and that's where I'm stuck now. Trying to maintain a healthy elimination diet without starving.

I do believe there's a hormonal element - if the anxiety, shaking, low HR, etc is a glutamate or ammonia overload, as seems to fit my symptoms, there's a chemical imbalance in my brain, and it would seem fitting that one of those chemicals is a hunger regulator. I've read that the babesia symptoms of air hunger and heart arrhythmia don't show up on the tests because its not a physical problem - it's a neurological/nervous system glitch that isn't communicating with your brain that there is sufficient oxygen, electricity, etc. That except in rare cases, it's just a sensation. So is my brain not getting the signal that I'm full and well-nourished? Or am I actually malnourished?

Until I'm able to see my ND, I don't know, but the hunger is driving me crazy. I was hoping there was support for this situation and other MCAS sufferers, but I can't find anything. But if I ever figure it out, I"ll be sure to get the info out there for the future!

Intuition said...
BabsBunny,

So sorry that you are having all of these issues. As far as cost goes, I've found that purchasing fresh meats (chicken and ground beef) and frozen wild seafood (gulf shrimp) in bulk helps me cut down significantly on my grocery bill. I'm not sure if you have wholesale clubs near you (BJ's / Costco) but it's worth getting a free daily or weekly pass and checking out the selection. I'll buy several pounds of fresh lean meat at a time, portion it out, and freeze it. Then I just throw a portion in the refrigerator the night before I plan to cook it and I don't notice a loss in taste or texture. It's probably not going to be the quality of something local, organic and farm-raised, but I found it to be a good cost-effective compromise.

For the hunger pangs, I'm not sure if you take supplements regularly, but I've found success with 5-HTP taken daily for reducing my appetite and boosting mood a bit. Hope this helps. Best of luck!

The problem with "fresh" meats is that, unless they are immediately frozen soon after butchering, they quickly develop high levels of histamine. (A low-histamine diet is, I think, THE most exasperating diet restriction I've met while dealing with Lyme. For people without infection, it does allow a lot more starches and dairy, but with lyme and Candida, I'm doubly restricted. It's CRAZY. And you will find 5 different lists with differing opinions on what is and is not low in histamine. However, its thought overactive mast cells are the cause of many food sensitivities - so the restrictive diet will heal your restrictions, if successful). Anyway, all lists agree that meat that's been sitting on a grocer's shelf for an uncertain amount of time is OFF LIMITS. It must be frozen, or received from the butcher himself. I don't think Costco can offer that.

Only place I can get quick-frozen quality meat is local farms. The question or myself is whether to go to the grocery store freezer and find turkey or chicken. But it will certainly be stuffed full of GMO corn and soy (both of which alone I have issues with). Whether or not those elements will be present enough in the meat to affect me, I don't know. I've read too much about factory farms to be comfortable with it, but at this point, I realize I might have to relax and just drink the poison to survive. I did eventually overcome my fear of WALKING IN GRASS (thanks to ticks), so perhaps I can overcome my fear of conventional meat. It just really concerns me how distorted agriculture has become in the last century.

I DO take 5-htp. I do have permission to raise my dose if needed, perhaps I should look at that. Just read it should be taken 30 minutes before a meal for best absorption, so maybe I'll be more careful to do that. Just... when I'm hungry all the time, there IS no time between meals!

Rikky1 said...
your 'hunger hormone' is probably babesia messing with your brain signals. my wife has this also she gets insatiable hunger even though she's not hungry.

she eats small meals when this comes on to push it back some.

Very good possibility. It has happened occasionally in the past, but this time it is worse and gnawing hunger to the point of anxiety. Then again, this whole "herx" has been worse and extreme to the point of anxiety.

I miss the old symptoms of brick-limbs and fatigue. When I wake up feeling like I got run over by a bus, I'm actually really excited to have that feeling rather than the neuro symptoms.

New one today: my whole face is numb.

olive leaf extract and black cumin seed oil is a very powerful combination to rid yourself of pathogens so take it low and slow and pulse them both so you give your body a rest so the immune system doesn't take an extended vacation.

Aerose91 said...
I had this for 3 years straight. Every day, after every meal i would get so hungry and such intolerable cravings that i would be trembling and lose my gait. I couldn't function because i was thinking about sugar so bad.

For me it was histamines and a klebsiella infection in my gut. For klebsiella i eat low starch and low sucrose and then a low histamine diet as well. The cravings are much, much reduced since then. Also, klebsiella produces histamines.

What im doing now is im about to start olive leaf extract and black cumin seed oil for the klebsiella because i don't think it's gone, eat low histamine/low starch and i take histamine reducing probiotics at night- either GutPro or Digesta Guard. If i eat even a lick of almond butter my hunger goes through the roof.

I believe that if we can kill off the histamine producing bacteria (klebsiella and obviously lyme & co's) then our histamine sensitivity should come down. Fingers crossed that is correct because these insane restrictions from histamine intolerance really blow.

Is GutPro good? I’ve had my eye on it but they won’t tell me the specific strains :-(

Have you gone to their website? There's a photo on there.

https://www.corganic.com/products/gutpro

Gutpro worked well for me when i was at my worst, i trust it

Aerose91 said...
Have you gone to their website? There's a photo on there.

https://www.corganic.com/products/gutpro

Gutpro worked well for me when i was at my worst, i trust it

Yes... that's why I have my eye on it... I contacted them asking about the specific strains (i,e numbers, not just the species) and they said its proprietary info they won't give me.

But if it was good for your histamine intolerance, then I will give it a go.

Babs you have to stay persistent and keep beating down Babesia. this can take a VERY long time before these signals go back to normal. my wife has been dealing with this for almost a year. crazy.

Aerose91 said...


Oh, yes. Amounts, i dont know but it did help me. It repopulated my bifidobacteria when i kept showing none on stool tests and didn't aggrivate histamines or acidity

Did you order it from the website, or can I get it somewhere with at least cheaper/ free shipping?

That was one of the strange things about getting Lyme. I was so hungry all the time. I would buy these huge scones and eat the whole thing.

The whole thing seemed to come with not being able to tell how much I had eaten or how much weight I gained. I used to be able to tell if I needed to gain weight looking in the mirror, but I have water retention all over so I can't tell.

Now the hungry feeling only comes once in a while when I am feeling especially bad. I know I'm getting worse if I keep feeling hungry for no reason.