Detox help - Severe Psych Herx - Suicidal Ideation/Dissociation

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have recently went through this and ended up in the ER twice. It took me a good 2 to 3 weeks after my last Flagyl stint to get back to feeling "normal". I would get severe psych herxes. Anxiety and panic were the worst. But also, my movement would get very stiff and I'd get very confused. It was absolutely horrible. It was after the last episode that I decided to stop antibiotic treatment and look towards more natural protocols as I felt abx were doing me more harm than anything else. I also got face rashes and itching. Also bad GI issues.

Please do not try and tough through a bad herx. The best thing you can do is back off. Your body, and in your case and mine, our brains were being flooded with toxins that we can not get rid of properly.

I recommend an anti inflammatory diet along with your other detox methods. Also try ending each shower with straight cold water for at least a minute. If you can manage it, 3 minutes. The benefits of cold showers are well documented and really get your lymphatic system going. Work on GI health as well. Many people cannot handle heavy abx use and it causes leaky gut which can cause neurological symptoms to get worse.

When were you diagnosed with lyme and co's? How long have you been treating?

You got this. And you are not alone. I'm glad you are reaching out.

I was diagnosed in Feb. I've had symptoms for about 20 years. My skin is so ravaged from the Bart. They kept telling me fibro and "somatic" before my neuro found the lyme. I've been on abx since sometime in March, maybe the 13th. I can't really recall. I was on ampicillin and then doxy was added and I was switched on the 10th to azyth, bactrim and plaquenil because the bart is really bad. My dr is also doing glutathione infusions 3x a week, however I missed 3 doses when I started this regimen because my veins all blew. So I've been hydrating like crazy to prevent that.

I am going to be switched to IV at some point - which is better then destroying my gut. I have contemplated herbals and my llnd will do that, however I am a single mother of 3 under 10 and I currently can't work or attend school anymore. I have no family nearby. So, needless to say I'm anxious to become more functional ASAP.

I didn't know about the cold showers. Will have to try that. I'm going to talk to my llnd about detox methods also and what her plan of action is now. It's not that I'm against low and slow; but I would like to return to class next semester. I have some contract work I do from home, but I'm almost done with school and then I will make more money with an easier schedule.

I'm working towards the anti-inflamatory diet - just have to eliminate sugar now. Been slowly taking things out of my diet. I'm gluten free from celiac, so that one was easy. I'm also taking probiotics and using aloe water. My stomach doesn't really bother me much, thankfully.

I also ordered some activated charcoal earlier today.

My fear is having to go to the ER and end up baker acted. Thank you for sharing that you had to go to the ER. I'm going to have to adjust my plan so I can take it slower. I started the Bactrim again today and my anxiety is already increased again. I thought I was starting again tomorrow, but somewhere I lost a day between Thursday and now.

Hoagie said...
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have recently went through this and ended up in the ER twice. It took me a good 2 to 3 weeks after my last Flagyl stint to get back to feeling "normal". I would get severe psych herxes. Anxiety and panic were the worst. But also, my movement would get very stiff and I'd get very confused. It was absolutely horrible. It was after the last episode that I decided to stop antibiotic treatment and look towards more natural protocols as I felt abx were doing me more harm than anything else. I also got face rashes and itching. Also bad GI issues.

Please do not try and tough through a bad herx. The best thing you can do is back off. Your body, and in your case and mine, our brains were being flooded with toxins that we can not get rid of properly.

I recommend an anti inflammatory diet along with your other detox methods. Also try ending each shower with straight cold water for at least a minute. If you can manage it, 3 minutes. The benefits of cold showers are well documented and really get your lymphatic system going. Work on GI health as well. Many people cannot handle heavy abx use and it causes leaky gut which can cause neurological symptoms to get worse.

When were you diagnosed with lyme and co's? How long have you been treating?

You got this. And you are not alone. I'm glad you are reaching out.

Sorry to hijack another question but it fall into herxing, first try eating radishes, 5 or so. Praying you feel better. My question is the problems they are having is it from the bugs attacking or from herxing? And how do you tell the difference? Please delete if this is not allowed on the original question.

Klonopin and lunesta

Kalymika said...
I was diagnosed in Feb. I've had symptoms for about 20 years. My skin is so ravaged from the Bart. They kept telling me fibro and "somatic" before my neuro found the lyme. I've been on abx since sometime in March, maybe the 13th. I can't really recall. I was on ampicillin and then doxy was added and I was switched on the 10th to azyth, bactrim and plaquenil because the bart is really bad. My dr is also doing glutathione infusions 3x a week, however I missed 3 doses when I started this regimen because my veins all blew. So I've been hydrating like crazy to prevent that.

I am going to be switched to IV at some point - which is better then destroying my gut. I have contemplated herbals and my llnd will do that, however I am a single mother of 3 under 10 and I currently can't work or attend school anymore. I have no family nearby. So, needless to say I'm anxious to become more functional ASAP.

I didn't know about the cold showers. Will have to try that. I'm going to talk to my llnd about detox methods also and what her plan of action is now. It's not that I'm against low and slow; but I would like to return to class next semester. I have some contract work I do from home, but I'm almost done with school and then I will make more money with an easier schedule.

I'm working towards the anti-inflamatory diet - just have to eliminate sugar now. Been slowly taking things out of my diet. I'm gluten free from celiac, so that one was easy. I'm also taking probiotics and using aloe water. My stomach doesn't really bother me much, thankfully.

I also ordered some activated charcoal earlier today.

My fear is having to go to the ER and end up baker acted. Thank you for sharing that you had to go to the ER. I'm going to have to adjust my plan so I can take it slower. I started the Bactrim again today and my anxiety is already increased again. I thought I was starting again tomorrow, but somewhere I lost a day between Thursday and now.

Hoagie said...
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have recently went through this and ended up in the ER twice. It took me a good 2 to 3 weeks after my last Flagyl stint to get back to feeling "normal". I would get severe psych herxes. Anxiety and panic were the worst. But also, my movement would get very stiff and I'd get very confused. It was absolutely horrible. It was after the last episode that I decided to stop antibiotic treatment and look towards more natural protocols as I felt abx were doing me more harm than anything else. I also got face rashes and itching. Also bad GI issues.

Please do not try and tough through a bad herx. The best thing you can do is back off. Your body, and in your case and mine, our brains were being flooded with toxins that we can not get rid of properly.

I recommend an anti inflammatory diet along with your other detox methods. Also try ending each shower with straight cold water for at least a minute. If you can manage it, 3 minutes. The benefits of cold showers are well documented and really get your lymphatic system going. Work on GI health as well. Many people cannot handle heavy abx use and it causes leaky gut which can cause neurological symptoms to get worse.

When were you diagnosed with lyme and co's? How long have you been treating?

You got this. And you are not alone. I'm glad you are reaching out.

Trust me, I understand that you want to get this knocked out as fast as possible. But, being that you have probably had this for so long, I'm afraid that it may take some time to get better. Be careful of going too hard too fast.

A woman named Mandy Hughes, (she was one of the main subjects on the Lyme documentary, "Under Our Skin) went into treatment head first and had a hell of a first few months. She was mainly neurological and started IV treatment with Dr J in DC. 3 months in she had an episode of seizures so bad that she stopped breathing. She was also in a wheelchair for several months. I actually found her on FB and messaged her. She is doing extremely well now. She's a nurse. I was thinking of doing IV and a lot of our symptoms were the same. So, I wanted to get some advice from her. She told me she went after it hard because she really needed her body back. I understand that completely. But, she seemed to be in a position to do so. No kids, and a supportive partner.

Seeing as you are a single mother with 3 young children, I'm not sure IV abx would be the right route for you at this time. I am no doctor, so take my opinion as you will. I'm sure your LLMD is good. Mine is going too fast for my comfort. It's just that I have a lot of the same symptoms as you. Oral abx made me a lot worse after a few months time. My LLMD says this is because the pathogens had dug so deep over the years that the first few months of treatment were just scraping away. And then BANG! about 2 months ago I made a break through. But, I was about ready to admit myself to the looney bin. It was hell. At the time there was no way I could sustain those types of herxes in order to get better. And I decided not to.

I hope your treatment works for you and you get better quickly. Just remember, if you are herxing hard on oral abx, IV is going to be more intense. So, please, don't tough through them. I wish you all the best and will be thinking of you.

I talked to my llnp today and we are going low and slow. And she gave me six detox things to do/take and doesn't want me doing more than that right now. Chlorella, activated charcoal, Epsom salt/peroxide baths or foot soaks, Apple cider vinegar, better diet and more water. Plus the glutathione infusions. I think the big issue was that I was going to get glutathione after starting the abx last week and couldn't because all my veins were blowing out. So now I have the IV line in for the week so I won't have that issue. If all goes well back on the bactrim then I'm adding plaquenil back later this week.

Because of how bad I herxed, I don't think I'll be on iv abx anytime soon and no hyperbaric chamber for a while either. Which is ok. I'll get my online business going again after finals this week and just go with the flow. I don't have any other options really. I don't want to go crazy and do something stupid trying to fight this.

Hoagie said...

Kalymika said...
I was diagnosed in Feb. I've had symptoms for about 20 years. My skin is so ravaged from the Bart. They kept telling me fibro and "somatic" before my neuro found the lyme. I've been on abx since sometime in March, maybe the 13th. I can't really recall. I was on ampicillin and then doxy was added and I was switched on the 10th to azyth, bactrim and plaquenil because the bart is really bad. My dr is also doing glutathione infusions 3x a week, however I missed 3 doses when I started this regimen because my veins all blew. So I've been hydrating like crazy to prevent that.

I am going to be switched to IV at some point - which is better then destroying my gut. I have contemplated herbals and my llnd will do that, however I am a single mother of 3 under 10 and I currently can't work or attend school anymore. I have no family nearby. So, needless to say I'm anxious to become more functional ASAP.

I didn't know about the cold showers. Will have to try that. I'm going to talk to my llnd about detox methods also and what her plan of action is now. It's not that I'm against low and slow; but I would like to return to class next semester. I have some contract work I do from home, but I'm almost done with school and then I will make more money with an easier schedule.

I'm working towards the anti-inflamatory diet - just have to eliminate sugar now. Been slowly taking things out of my diet. I'm gluten free from celiac, so that one was easy. I'm also taking probiotics and using aloe water. My stomach doesn't really bother me much, thankfully.

I also ordered some activated charcoal earlier today.

My fear is having to go to the ER and end up baker acted. Thank you for sharing that you had to go to the ER. I'm going to have to adjust my plan so I can take it slower. I started the Bactrim again today and my anxiety is already increased again. I thought I was starting again tomorrow, but somewhere I lost a day between Thursday and now.

Hoagie said...
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have recently went through this and ended up in the ER twice. It took me a good 2 to 3 weeks after my last Flagyl stint to get back to feeling "normal". I would get severe psych herxes. Anxiety and panic were the worst. But also, my movement would get very stiff and I'd get very confused. It was absolutely horrible. It was after the last episode that I decided to stop antibiotic treatment and look towards more natural protocols as I felt abx were doing me more harm than anything else. I also got face rashes and itching. Also bad GI issues.

Please do not try and tough through a bad herx. The best thing you can do is back off. Your body, and in your case and mine, our brains were being flooded with toxins that we can not get rid of properly.

I recommend an anti inflammatory diet along with your other detox methods. Also try ending each shower with straight cold water for at least a minute. If you can manage it, 3 minutes. The benefits of cold showers are well documented and really get your lymphatic system going. Work on GI health as well. Many people cannot handle heavy abx use and it causes leaky gut which can cause neurological symptoms to get worse.

When were you diagnosed with lyme and co's? How long have you been treating?

You got this. And you are not alone. I'm glad you are reaching out.

Trust me, I understand that you want to get this knocked out as fast as possible. But, being that you have probably had this for so long, I'm afraid that it may take some time to get better. Be careful of going too hard too fast.

A woman named Mandy Hughes, (she was one of the main subjects on the Lyme documentary, "Under Our Skin) went into treatment head first and had a hell of a first few months. She was mainly neurological and started IV treatment with Dr J in DC. 3 months in she had an episode of seizures so bad that she stopped breathing. She was also in a wheelchair for several months. I actually found her on FB and messaged her. She is doing extremely well now. She's a nurse. I was thinking of doing IV and a lot of our symptoms were the same. So, I wanted to get some advice from her. She told me she went after it hard because she really needed her body back. I understand that completely. But, she seemed to be in a position to do so. No kids, and a supportive partner.

Seeing as you are a single mother with 3 young children, I'm not sure IV abx would be the right route for you at this time. I am no doctor, so take my opinion as you will. I'm sure your LLMD is good. Mine is going too fast for my comfort. It's just that I have a lot of the same symptoms as you. Oral abx made me a lot worse after a few months time. My LLMD says this is because the pathogens had dug so deep over the years that the first few months of treatment were just scraping away. And then BANG! about 2 months ago I made a break through. But, I was about ready to admit myself to the looney bin. It was hell. At the time there was no way I could sustain those types of herxes in order to get better. And I decided not to.

I hope your treatment works for you and you get better quickly. Just remember, if you are herxing hard on oral abx, IV is going to be more intense. So, please, don't tough through them. I wish you all the best and will be thinking of you.

Woodduck12 said...
Does your psch herxes wax and want? I have been on herbals for months and I so far got rid of alot of head pressure and the tinnitus has been going down. The depression is subsiding alot. Kncok on wood. The OCD and agitated feeling is like the last thing I need to get rid of.

I just increased my on buhners and having lots of OCD/ panic. It's barley tolarable. Trying to get this thing out of my head.

This is my first major psych herx. I've had a cyclical type depression/suicidal ideation/cutting since I was 13. It was really bad in my teens, I was hospitalized every 2-3 months for a two year period. Then everything just went away. Looking back, I had gone vegan an began vitamins to help my mood after my last psych ward and I'm wondering if that helped my immune system take control and if it was Lyme the whole time. I was free from psych symptoms for twelve years and then after having a miscarriage and two live births in three years, the psych symptoms returned with a vengeance. I've had visual migraines, tinnitis and other symptoms come and go also since my early twenties. I was agoraphobic for a year and diagnosed with ptsd because of my symptoms and history of trauma.

I will keep you updated on if my symptoms wax and wane. It makes sense though that yours come and go. As bacteria are born and die and killed by herbs I could see how your symptoms would come and go. Also just being on a regimen is hard on the immune system, so I could see how if you are exposed to say a cold bug, your system would need to put more focus on that and less on processing out toxins.

Hang in there on the increase and I hope your symptoms subside quickly. I know how hard this is. You are not alone

Hoagie said...
Kalymika - it's interesting that you mention HBOT. I have been doing dives in a hard chamber for 2 weeks now. I felt great after the first week. Then kinda evened out in the 2nd week. And today I did 2 dives and believe I have kicked off a herx.

Have you done hyperbaric before? And if so did you herx?

I've never done HBOT yet. My dr just told me today that she doesn't want me doing it right now because she said it will likely make me herx. Thats interesting that it helped get rid of your herx? I haven't read a lot on it yet, they have HBOT at my dr's though so if I can get the money together I want to do it eventually. I can see how it would help you feel good since it oxygenates your body. How far are you in treatment? How long have you been on abx? What are your dx?

I know they told me that hyperbaric would help push the lyme out of my tissue and into the bloodstream so the abx can get it.

Hi Kalymika,

So sorry you are going through this. By any chance have you considered using alternative medicine instead of antibiotics? I am worried about your gut as well as the side effects from abx.

When I was sick I suffered from lyme rage and well as other neuro problems and what helped me was binding up the ammonia in my brain and body by using a remedy called Neuro-Antitox CNS/PNS formula. Ammonia is a very bad toxin that's left over from the die-offs and can cause so much havoc to one's brain and body.

Hope you feel better!
Denise

Kalymika said...
I will all my Dr about the detox. We have talked about herbal treatment. That is something I was going to do after abx. As soon as I get on the meds they are moving me to IV. Well I guess if I get past the initial herx this time. I'm going to have to do some meditating on what I want to do. My stomach is surprisingly ok so far. I use aloe juice and take probiotics though, so I know that helps.

I can already feel some of the psych effects from just the bactrim. Crying spells, cognitive difficulties, depression. This will be a long couple of weeks. Thanks for everyone's input. Im starting charcoal today and using soaks. This is only temporary, right.

Deejavu said...
Hi Kalymika,

So sorry you are going through this. By any chance have you considered using alternative medicine instead of antibiotics? I am worried about your gut as well as the side effects from abx.

When I was sick I suffered from lyme rage and well as other neuro problems and what helped me was binding up the ammonia in my brain and body by using a remedy called Neuro-Antitox CNS/PNS formula. Ammonia is a very bad toxin that's left over from the die-offs and can cause so much havoc to one's brain and body.

Hope you feel better!
Denise

Yes, this is only temporary. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. You will make it through this!

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but please manage your herxing. I posted an article a few weeks ago from an LLMD speaking on this. He has had patients that tried "toughing" through severe herxes and ended up setting themselves back tremendously. And in some cases, were unable to even get back to baseline health.

I'm not trying to be a fear monger or anything, I just don't want you to think severe herxing is something you are supposed to deal with in order to get better. On the contrary, they are counterproductive. Some level of herxing is expected, you just don't want any sustained severe herxing.

Kalymika said...
How do I find the article? Or can you send me a link. I'd like to read it.

And you are right. What you said about the girl from the movie really concerns me. My doctor is obviously concerned as well since we stopped abx for a few days and are starting slower. I've been doing foot baths every night and I took a bath today with Epsom and peroxide.

I don't want to make this worse or end up with permanent damage.

Hoagie said...

Kalymika said...
I will all my Dr about the detox. We have talked about herbal treatment. That is something I was going to do after abx. As soon as I get on the meds they are moving me to IV. Well I guess if I get past the initial herx this time. I'm going to have to do some meditating on what I want to do. My stomach is surprisingly ok so far. I use aloe juice and take probiotics though, so I know that helps.

I can already feel some of the psych effects from just the bactrim. Crying spells, cognitive difficulties, depression. This will be a long couple of weeks. Thanks for everyone's input. Im starting charcoal today and using soaks. This is only temporary, right.

Deejavu said...
Hi Kalymika,

So sorry you are going through this. By any chance have you considered using alternative medicine instead of antibiotics? I am worried about your gut as well as the side effects from abx.

When I was sick I suffered from lyme rage and well as other neuro problems and what helped me was binding up the ammonia in my brain and body by using a remedy called Neuro-Antitox CNS/PNS formula. Ammonia is a very bad toxin that's left over from the die-offs and can cause so much havoc to one's brain and body.

Hope you feel better!
Denise

Yes, this is only temporary. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. You will make it through this!

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but please manage your herxing. I posted an article a few weeks ago from an LLMD speaking on this. He has had patients that tried "toughing" through severe herxes and ended up setting themselves back tremendously. And in some cases, were unable to even get back to baseline health.

I'm not trying to be a fear monger or anything, I just don't want you to think severe herxing is something you are supposed to deal with in order to get better. On the contrary, they are counterproductive. Some level of herxing is expected, you just don't want any sustained severe herxing.

Here is the link.
francisholisticmedicalcenter.com/images/Managing_through_the_Herxheimer_Reaction.pdf

Some important highlights from the article..

Somebody said...
In 1988, if my borreliosis patients had a Jarisch-Herxheimer-like reaction, I
changed their antibiotic. Later it was realized that the reaction was because the antibiotic
was working. So patients were told to try to stay on antibiotics during the Herxheimer.
It was then discovered that staying on antibiotics often caused more trouble than
good, if patients were having a Herx. Borreliosis patients usually lose ground if they stay
on antibiotics when Herxheimers hit.
Some of the saddest borreliosis patients I have are ones that did not take my
advice, and stayed on an antibiotic during a Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction. For months,
they went downhill and downhill. When they finally quit antibiotics, they often stay
worse. They usually do not get back to baseline, much less back to normal.
Your brain will tell you that since the Herxheimer indicate the antibiotic are
working, to stay on them. Please ignore your brain. Since 1988, with well over seven
thousand borreliosis patients, I assure you, going off antibiotics is the better part of valor.
We do not need any heros or heroines. Toughness is not needed. “No pain, no gain” does
not apply to Jarisch-Herxheimer-like reactions!

Thank you for the articles. I'm doing a bit better starting slower on the meds. And being more adamant with detox measures and rest. I started the bactrim Sunday and the plaquenil yesterday. I add the azythrimax next Thursday if all goes well. I also found out I have mycoplasm, so not sure until my follow up if that requires separate treatment.