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Cissus Update: healing tendons and ligaments + DMSO, getting stronger

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Posted 3/28/2018 5:28 PM (GMT 0)
Cissus quadrangularis is a plant widely used in traditional Ayurvedic and African medicine across India, Asia and Africa.

/www.selfhacked.com/blog/cissus-quadrangularis/

This is new to me, still reading about it before I try.

Anyone use this?

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/16/2018 9:02:58 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/29/2018 8:51 PM (GMT 0)
bump
Posted 3/29/2018 9:19 PM (GMT 0)
have you tried BPC 157?
Posted 3/29/2018 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
have you tried BPC 157?

No, new to me. Goggle brings up injectable as far as I saw at first glance......(?)
Posted 4/1/2018 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
After reading great user reviews on body building forums for this healing tendon/soft tissue problems, I went ahead and bought some Cissus. The "cage" fighters use this too, they would know.

/www.amazon.com/Cissus-quadrangularis-Extract-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B00COPTQVI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?imprToken=q-p8k6z6XBW.3S.JO3DbRQ&linkid=6ea8215ced45b6aaab0bd8d62f3a92e8&linkCode=ll1&tag=nootrimentcissus-20&linkId=b9dd2e239d5e5cea51bd8876a389ef7f

I will keep updates on this. It the past there were more than a few here with tendon issues.

----------------------------------------------------

Its funny, some forums with this same question had some commenters who are 100% against all natural supplemental healing (its all snake oil LOL). Its great to see them corrected by people using said supplements. Such mindsets would be fed to the gators on lyme forums.

Once upon a time people thought the earth was flat (and some still do).

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/31/2018 10:11:20 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/4/2018 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
I just tried a cheap one (capsule form) that was on the shelf - at my local vit store. In a few days, I can already tell that it does work better and sooner than other more popular soft tissue suppliments.

If it seems very prommising I will look into ordering online. There are several brands which users claim are better than others (I have not narrowed down my which one to get).
Posted 4/4/2018 6:10 PM (GMT 0)

sandyfeet said...
Good to hear. I'm going to try the powdered herb and I'll let you know how it works out.

How would you take the powder? Make your own capsules (money savings), or mix in a smoothy ? -this cant taste to great.

I see powder is a LOT cheaper:

/www.bodybuilding.com/store/livelong-nutrition/cissus.html?skuId=LIVE1440225&PLASKU=LIVE1440225&mcid=CG_PLA_US_OD_Segment_US_New_Desktop_OD_Segment_US_New_Desktop_Ad_Group_1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIweHmiJyh2gIVQrbACh3e1gFQEAQYASABEgKgkfD_BwE

/www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=cissus+quadrangularis+powder&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=177774800324&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12044518126979519391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019609&hvtargid=kwd-10810980485&ref=pd_sl_8iz7bhwfg5_e

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/4/2018 12:15:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/9/2018 7:51 PM (GMT 0)
I've read most take it two or three times a day, I've done both depending on soreness from which workout routine.

Two caps each dose (1300mg I think) is what I take so far.

Its also somewhat calming - regulates / lowers elevated cortisol and blood sugar, as those two work together, thats an additional perk for me, maybe not everyone though.

What brand powder did you order?
Posted 4/9/2018 8:42 PM (GMT 0)
Whole herb, stalks and all, but ground up in powder? hmm...different.

I can feel the gradual calming, and glucose is a little lower. Heavy workouts elevate both for hours after (raises cortisol, then glucose follows), this seems to counter effect that.....well so far.
Posted 4/16/2018 1:32 AM (GMT 0)
Two week update:

Feeling stronger from cissus, plus I still use topical DMSO several times on sore areas. Some mornings are still a little sore in some areas (old injuries), but I'm really pushing myself lately.

Tested myself today:
-Shoveled some of our fresh 15" of snow

-then did three 75 yard deep snow sprint runs on the town ball-field to really loosen up

-Then leg pressed 500lbs 20 times, which I dont think is "meat head" territory, but pretty good for 6', 180, I have not done that in 30 years or so. Max of 20 reps was 400lbs for 6 months up to 3 weeks ago.
I had a pain limit at 300lbs on leg press just before ABX (prior 2014) and didnt do any leg press in 2016.

***These weight numbers were posted because there is no way a 180lb guy could naturally gain enough muscle strength in just three weeks to go from 400lbs to 500lbs (both 20 reps) on the leg press. The same muscle mass is present, its just in a more healed state, from cissus plant supplement.***

Feel good right now, I just took more cissus and painted on some DMSO to get out of bed Monday morning LOL.

So I'd say its obvious that cissus works.

I read about it on bodybuilding forums for muscle and tendon issues. I dont know how much it can help for people who still have lyme, certainly cant hurt to try.

Next morning update: got outta bed with no problem, hips / legs fell good. Neck and should are a little sore from shoveling heavy snow, thats it.
Posted 4/16/2018 6:41 PM (GMT 0)
This sounds very promising astroman!

My ligaments/tendons have went downhill fast. Especially in my knees. It is very painful for me to even squat anymore. I will have to try this.

Do you apply the dmso undiluted?
Posted 4/16/2018 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
I guess and mix in 10-30% distilled water with it in a shot glass. Its supposed to sting less that way, but still does. I will sometimes put arnica montana gel over its when near dry.

The snow running really felt great, wish there were something similar for summer. Wood chip trail is the closest thing to cushion, but provides no resistance. My lungs have improved. First time I tried it this winter I thought I was going to keel over. The snow will be here a while, so I'll do it again maybe.
Posted 6/30/2018 1:25 PM (GMT 0)
Three month Cissus Update:

I've been using Cissus plant in capsule for exactly 3 months now - and my tendon's are definitely better and I have almost normal post workout recovery.

This has allowed me to be much more aggressive with more varieties of shoulder workouts, and i'm much stronger in my shoulders than just three months ago. Full range of motion with only a minimal click in one shoulder direction/movement if not warmed up. I can now workout upper body for days in a row without issues.

I no longer need to use topical DMSO after aggressive upper body workouts - its more of an option now. Will prob still use it for glutes and TFL/ hip muscle strengthening though.
Posted 6/30/2018 4:24 PM (GMT 0)
That's great, astroman. Will you continue to use it for maintenance?
Posted 6/30/2018 8:15 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
That's great, astroman. Will you continue to use it for maintenance?

Yes, since I think I can still improve my spine and there is still more lower body healing to do. When I'm done, I will be in the best shape for years, not counting cardio. Cant improve old lungs that much though (to much work too ha ha).
Posted 7/1/2018 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
Hi astroman,

Would the cissus capsules help with a frozen shoulder (caused by lyme disease)? If so, what brand do you recommend? Thanks, ClamDigger.
Posted 7/1/2018 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
I never relied on cissus alone but some reviewers on Amazon did- with varying degrees of success.

You can decide of the best brand there, I just opted for a house brand a supplement store had on the shelf which is 800mg per capsule. Ive taken as much as 6 per day. Admittedly, there looks to be better ones but they're are all spendy.

I had frozen shoulder in the past (both sides 1990's) , so what I'm fixing is remnants of old injuries that never fully healed during years of lyme. But I also incorporate my own muscle and tendon release along with my own incremental workout routine in the form of self PT.

When I added cissus to my routine, I noticed a difference in tendon health vs without it. I original learned about it on fitness and lifting forums - most of those people are very in tune with muscular/structural issues.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/1/2018 10:49:06 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/1/2018 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
I'm getting PT at the moment. I also do yoga and band stretching for the shoulders. I'll have to try the cisssus. Thanks.

Post Edited (Clam Digger) : 7/1/2018 1:44:31 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/2/2018 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
Could this help with the muscle fatigue I feel? Or is this for something else?
Posted 7/2/2018 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
Cissus heals injured soft tissue. It takes a while.

Even with all the tight muscles, pain and stiff tendons, I never had what I'd call muscle fatigue. Muscle fatigue sounds like an oxygen issue or the general mitochondria energy issue that lyme can create.

I hurt so much that I couldnt use my muscles enough to fatigue them. Pain limited me using them to their fullest.

My "fatigue" was pretty much body energy related, not muscles - cissus will not help for body energy, again, its help in tissue healing.

Muscle fatigue after extreme exersise or weight liting whould be normal - but you probably know that.

I had Muscle weakeness and unbalanced muscles in many aereas after even after lyme treatment. The only cure for that is weight training, but to do that effectivly, I had to heal injured areas first to allow full range of motion.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/2/2018 12:46:59 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/2/2018 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
My primary lingering symptom is muscle fatigue, it limits me to light exertion. I used to be able to climb several sets of stairs at once before feeling my legs get heavy, but now they feel heavy after one staircase. I can still run a mile, but I have to take it slower than I used to because my legs get tired. It's such a weird feeling to not even be out of breath but to be unable to run any further because your legs feel like lead.

Is this something I should look into taking as well?
Posted 7/2/2018 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
Since you have no injuries or tight tendons (many have tendonitis all over) cissus probably wont do much of anything.

I've heard of the heavy limb feel from lyme, I only had that a short time. That is an energy issue (mitochondria), not tissue injury. Maybe low thyroid- your whole body and brain feels tried with that, and malfunctions too.

Cissus does nothing for energy, it heals injured tissue. Injured tissue hurts.
Posted 7/2/2018 6:57 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, thanks for letting me know. Pretty much all of my other symptoms have improved with continued treatment, but this is one of my oldest ones so it'll probably just take longer than the others to go away. Thanks!
Posted 7/3/2018 5:07 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Astroman,

I'm happy for you. Glad to hear that cissus is working.

I wondered if many others have had frozen shoulder, too. I had it in both shoulders also.

I also use DMSO. My little finger was bruised today and I put some DMSO on it. It already feels better.

I'll make a note of cissus in case I might need it. Right now I'm feeling pretty good.

I just started exercising again, mild compared to what you do I'm sure. I walked and jogged in the nearby park 6 days last week.
Posted 7/3/2018 6:22 AM (GMT 0)
Jogging certainly is not easy on the body (low back, hips), good you are able to do it.

I snow sprinted this last winter on a ball field - best effect with 10-14" of snow. Was like a combination of cushioned weightlessness and good resistance (opposites united). Minimal distance commitment, easy on joints, and was easy to see/feel weekly improvement. Was fun too, felt like a kid again.
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