Why are deer immune to lyme disease?

I have read that deer are immune to lyme disease. Since recently being diagnosed with lyme, i have been reading many articles/forums and i cannot recall a post/comment that i had read a few days ago. A person actually suggested that it had to do with one or two plants that are a regular part of the deer's diet. any thoughts?

After doing a quick search this is what I have found so far:

Blood tests on deer have shown that they do not, but from a scientific standpoint, we cannot rule the possibility out. Chief vector (on the North East Coast of the U.S. appears to be birds, including sparrows, and raccoons (20+% carriers). Weather changes (read: warming) has extended the life cycle of ticks, particularly on the West Coast (lack of ‘freezes’). But ticks are always born Lyme Free.

A noteworthy experiment (that shows up in the margin of it, not the Abstract), is some experimenters that were using horses to test vaccine. So, all the horses were exposed to Lyme infected ticks, except a ‘control’ horse that was exposed to non-infected ticks of the same species. After the experiment (on resistence), the control horse was back-checked with infected ticks, to confirm the control… but the ‘control’ didn’t get infected. They re-did the attempt to infect the ‘control’ with massive amounts of infected ticks: again: the control did not get infected.

The assumption that can be made is that Lyme transfers with difficulty from an infected tick (insect) to a mammalian host, and IF that host already has a resistance to the Tick protein, then the transfer of Lyme bacteria is blocked (this may be going on with deer as well).

This explains a lot, as MANY woodsman comment that they ‘have been in these woods for years, and never got Lyme.’ That’s probably VERY TRUE, yet if they bring in a tick-naive friend (usually female), then they WILL get Lyme disease. This explains why there is a gender difference, as markedly more females (over 30) than males get Lyme (although males are predomanently hiking the woods); while with children (under 15), the gender difference is not seen. (EU and particularly German statistical data)

/www.quora.com/Do-deer-get-Lyme-disease

Denise

I don't know how true this is... but just as a general rule of thumb natural reservoir hosts tend to be more resistant to disease. In them, the microorganism lives as a symbiont. It is only in an "accidental" host that the host develops delayed type hypersensitivity to the bacteria. For example, white footed mice produce high levels of IL-10 in response to Lyme. This is an antiinflammatory cytokine and in essence compromises their immune system allowing more spirochetes to thrive in their tissues. The benefit though, is that the mouse doesn't produce inflammation and so experiences minor or no disease symptoms. They essentially have come to a truce with the bacteria. On the contrary, humans produce much less IL-10 leading to much more severe inflammation, but also much smaller burdens of spirochetes.

www.jimmunol.org/content/188/1_Supplement/169.16


"Abstract

IL-10 suppresses the development of arthritis in Borrelia burgdorferi infected mice. Infected IL-10-/- mice were previously found to have a robust and sustained interferon-inducible response in joint tissue, and elevated IFN-γ in sera. Treatment of IL-10-/- mice with anti-IFN-γ reduced arthritis severity and suppressed interferon-inducible transcripts to wild type levels, thereby linking dysregulation of IFN-γ to disease in the IL-10-/- mouse. Arthritis in IL-10 deficient mice was associated with elevated numbers of NK cell, NKT cell, α/β T cell, and macrophage infiltration of the infected joint."

More about IL-10 :

/www.omicsonline.org/interleukin-il-regulatory-cytokine-and-its-clinical-consequences-2155-9899-S1-007.php?aid=11113

That cwd is out here its a form of mad cow disease ...sponge bob brain...all deer hete must be tested before consumed
The fence lizard ,bees , sea urchurns who knows ...i almost tried scorpion and rattler venom ...i still may do kambo (frog poison)

Isntthe new abx curza 99 supposed to be done with clinical trials this year ? Guinea pigs anyone ?

frog poison? you crazy blue LOL that's why we love ya.

Deejavu said...
After doing a quick search this is what I have found so far:

Blood tests on deer have shown that they do not, but from a scientific standpoint, we cannot rule the possibility out. Chief vector (on the North East Coast of the U.S. appears to be birds, including sparrows, and raccoons (20+% carriers). Weather changes (read: warming) has extended the life cycle of ticks, particularly on the West Coast (lack of ‘freezes’). But ticks are always born Lyme Free.

A noteworthy experiment (that shows up in the margin of it, not the Abstract), is some experimenters that were using horses to test vaccine. So, all the horses were exposed to Lyme infected ticks, except a ‘control’ horse that was exposed to non-infected ticks of the same species. After the experiment (on resistence), the control horse was back-checked with infected ticks, to confirm the control… but the ‘control’ didn’t get infected. They re-did the attempt to infect the ‘control’ with massive amounts of infected ticks: again: the control did not get infected.

The assumption that can be made is that Lyme transfers with difficulty from an infected tick (insect) to a mammalian host, and IF that host already has a resistance to the Tick protein, then the transfer of Lyme bacteria is blocked (this may be going on with deer as well).

This explains a lot, as MANY woodsman comment that they ‘have been in these woods for years, and never got Lyme.’ That’s probably VERY TRUE, yet if they bring in a tick-naive friend (usually female), then they WILL get Lyme disease. This explains why there is a gender difference, as markedly more females (over 30) than males get Lyme (although males are predomanently hiking the woods); while with children (under 15), the gender difference is not seen. (EU and particularly German statistical data)

/www.quora.com/Do-deer-get-Lyme-disease

Denise

I think there is something to the tick protein benefit. Especially if the initial tick encounter was with a non-infected tick as would have been the case with the Ol' Timers you mentioned. Ticks are more loaded now than they used to be..... but, years ago, if a person was fed upon by a "clean" tick, the body had time to produce an antibody response to the tick saliva/protein that would cause an immediate immune response right away once they were exposed to dirty ticks.

The only thing is (I'm thinking out loud now), the tick saliva contains immune-down-regulating chemicals that would inhibit, or at least partially inhibit, the immune response to the "clean" bite.

So, it probably has more to do with how loaded the ticks are nowadays (and warmer winters only allow the germ burden to build within the ticks since the ticks don't get killed off from year to year). But, immunologically speaking, it does seem like the antibody response to the tick saliva would provide some protection, especially in animals which build a Th2 response much more quickly than humans. That quicker response is probably why the horse did not get infected in that study.

I found the post: the herb's name is teasel root. it was described to me that teasel root is able to pull the spirochetes out of hiding.

magoo2 said...
Good question.
I always wonder why most people are immune from lyme. Many people live and work outdoors and get exposed to lyme and never get lyme. Many more get lyme and one round of doxy cures them. Why?

It's a host response. Many people get lyme but their bodies can handle it. Those of us who go chronic have specific gene mutations and/or environmental factors that make us susceptible to downstream effects of the infection

There would be many answers/reasons, hard to get an accurate study.

Everyone ones knows about mthfr- its almost a fad.

There are many other immune strength genes more important in infection which are almost never mentioned. Maybe there time will come.

There are those who live with poor environmental factors and live a long life too. The triggers are there, but if there's no "bad genes" to switch (the kindling to illness), nothing happens, even with environmental radicals and inflammation at the cell level...........these people just endure and dont realize how lucky they are, dont even get cancer in old age...

yep.follow the money.

Aerose91 said...

magoo2 said...
Good question.
I always wonder why most people are immune from lyme. Many people live and work outdoors and get exposed to lyme and never get lyme. Many more get lyme and one round of doxy cures them. Why?

It's a host response. Many people get lyme but their bodies can handle it. Those of us who go chronic have specific gene mutations and/or environmental factors that make us susceptible to downstream effects of the infection

I personally feel pretty confident that you would find that those people who are healthy but have Lyme actually have the same type of gene mutations that most of us chronic Lyme patients do. But the reason they are healthy is because their immune systems are not completely compromised at this point. Give them enough infections and they too will come down with Lyme disease just as we have.

You will NEVER get well simply addressing known gene mutations. Never. I worked with a practitioner who was a avid follower of Amy Yasko who said all I had to do to get well was address these mutations. What a joke. I only got worse addressing those issues because we were not properly addressing the infections. Yes, I have mutations--everyone has mutations-- but they are not why I got sick or why I was not getting well. The same for everyone! I repeat. You will NEVER get well simply addressing your genetic mutations! You can waste your precious money on all the "genetic" supplements if you want. Many are way overpriced! But, you will save yourself thousands of dollars if you simply go to the root of your ill health.....the infections. Gradually lowering the infectious load over time will alleviate your symptoms. These bugs take advantage of your genetic weak points. But even with perfect genes you would still be sick. Take the bugs out of the equation and you will be well again. I personally have not heard of one (not one) person who addressed genetic mutations (as it related to Lyme disease, Mold, etc.) that got well because of it. Neither have I heard of anyone whose symptoms were noticeably helped by it. I honestly think it's just a money-making scheme for those practitioners who insist it's the cause of your illness.

TOOTY said...

Aerose91 said...

magoo2 said...
Good question.
I always wonder why most people are immune from lyme. Many people live and work outdoors and get exposed to lyme and never get lyme. Many more get lyme and one round of doxy cures them. Why?

It's a host response. Many people get lyme but their bodies can handle it. Those of us who go chronic have specific gene mutations and/or environmental factors that make us susceptible to downstream effects of the infection

I personally feel pretty confident that you would find that those people who are healthy but have Lyme actually have the same type of gene mutations that most of us chronic Lyme patients do. But the reason they are healthy is because their immune systems are not completely compromised at this point. Give them enough infections and they too will come down with Lyme disease just as we have.

You will NEVER get well simply addressing known gene mutations. Never. I worked with a practitioner who was a avid follower of Amy Yasko who said all I had to do to get well was address these mutations. What a joke. I only got worse addressing those issues because we were not properly addressing the infections. Yes, I have mutations--everyone has mutations-- but they are not why I got sick or why I was not getting well. The same for everyone! I repeat. You will NEVER get well simply addressing your genetic mutations! You can waste your precious money on all the "genetic" supplements if you want. Many are way overpriced! But, you will save yourself thousands of dollars if you simply go to the root of your ill health.....the infections. Gradually lowering the infectious load over time will alleviate your symptoms. These bugs take advantage of your genetic weak points. But even with perfect genes you would still be sick. Take the bugs out of the equation and you will be well again. I personally have not heard of one (not one) person who addressed genetic mutations (as it related to Lyme disease, Mold, etc.) that got well because of it. Neither have I heard of anyone whose symptoms were noticeably helped by it. I honestly think it's just a money-making scheme for those practitioners who insist it's the cause of your illness.

Agree:
Yes the Gene Dr followers make money on trials not proven effective. Dont base your viewpiont on this though.

Disagree on the last part here:
"Yes, I have mutations--everyone has mutations-- but they are not why I got sick or why I was not getting well. The same for everyone! "

Incorrect viewpoint. I've studied this more than some. There are genes that these Drs dont address or even bother with, probably because they know nothing can be done on their part. There are many genes that share more obvious symptoms and diseases them selves.

After all, even conventional medicine has used genetic testing for rare diseases quite a while now. I had this opportunity and qualified for a grant to get it done.

Combined genes that make proper methalation difficult, liver detoxing and even genes that effect immune cell strength and autoimmune are even known to make a difference in more common non-lyme illnesses. The "bubble boy" - remember him- its a immune cell gene issue, he has zero immunity due to gentic issues- obvious health difference.

Yes some genes make no difference, but some do make a noticable difference. Everyone has some genetic malfunction, but it depend WHAT genes. They are not all the same. Those with compromised immunity from genes will certainly have a more difficult time. This is proven out of the lyme community, no reason it cant affect us as well.

The recent gene Drs risen out of this recent popularity concentrate to much on the more popular genes and dont even know the more important ones. I went to one of these "fad Drs" and caught many important ones on my own just from goggling that she never knew about. Ones that do make a difference in my life that are not correctable so far. Even specialized conventional medicine has taking interest and retested with their tests saying these probably are creating issues from repeated/known data in their field.

So yes, certain genes CAN make a difference in your health.

These "fad Drs" cannot fix this so far. Yasko has more theory than facts. Its part of her creative income plan.

Will one pinhole make a boat sink overnight? No, but 50 might and will in time unless you purge ahead of leak rate. Some of us need to ID the pinholes and stay ahead of them. Sometimes diet can help, but seldom fix the leak.