Goodby All. Thanks for the Help. No longer treating Lyme

Mark FW said...

The reason I'm leaving is several. One, I cannot handle all, what I feel, is bad advice being passed around. Second.. the Lyme culture is a club in itself. I no longer hold to the beliefs talked about on this forum nor the Lyme Literate community The championed LLMD's talked about are in many cases telling us what we want to hear. Many I'm sure well meaning but are playing wack-a-mole with your body. Therefore out of respect for the forum, it's best I don't participate.

Mark

It really sounds like you wanted to open up a topic of discussion on subjects you aren't happy with like antibiotics and traditional treatment from ILADs. Instead you opened up a thread saying you're leaving this forum because there's other people on this forum who won't accept your ideology in the treatment of Lyme Disease, so you're leaving because of it.

Then put in a side note "no longer treating lyme." Suggesting that you've been cured, but then back track and say you need to clarify you're not cured... Then later mention you know of a cure.

Mark FW said...
First I;'m not cured. Like many of your I still have a ways to go..

Mark, I get your point of view in so many ways... LLMDs make a lot of promises they can't keep, some charge enormous prices on top of an already corrupt medical system that really wasn't looking to cure you anyways, but to mask and manage your symptoms with autoimmune drugs and pain pills. Longterm antibiotic therapy isn't suitable for a lot of patients due to the sick feeling you get, the herxing and side effects.

It's one thing to point these things out, it's another to put the entire blame on antibiotics and ILADs, when they're the main group that has basically helped us get this far.

Scientists have been preaching for a long time that bacteria would start becoming immune to antibiotics. By 2050, they say 90k Brits will die along with 1 million Americans. This is a real thing and it's happening as we speak.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6363109/antibiotic-resistance-kill-90-000-britons-2050.html

Do we need to get off of antibiotics and switch to something like immunotherapy for lyme disease pronto, maybe even something like phage therapy. Yes, we need to be off this archaic way of treatment where we damage our microbiome as well as other things in our body. Very similar how we need to switch off of fossil fuels due to climate change. But for the most part, we aren't there yet, are we? So we don't start blaming the one's looking to help or start making up treatments that claim to cure us...

I can't say how many times I've seen so many alternative therapies that have been proposed to cure lyme, but still haven't. The list goes on and on... Yes antibiotics are far from perfect, but so are the claims made with these alternative therapies as well. And don't get me wrong, some of these herbs and alternative therapies have their uses in Chronic Lyme Disease, whether it's biofilms, inflammation, modulate the immune system. But problems come in when people make bold claims they have no business doing so, using the words cure and remission, twisting the science to suit their ideology and treatment protocols so they can make more money, yes, both sides are doing it! No one's innocent!

salt/vitamin c protocol
MMS
CBD oil
Apple Cider Vinegar
IV Vitamin C
hyperthermia treatment
Rife Therapy

Mark FW said...


People are getting cured on ACC. 100's if not 1,000's of them. All the Moderators are healed or healing.

Just a tip, if you're going to make some type of bold claim like "cure" or big numbers like "100" or "1000," at least followup with some testimonials, links, some sort of proof.

Mark FW said...


When you look at the industry that has popped up around this condition, it's now big money.. People writing books, holding training seminars, promoting products. LOTS pf products.. Many of the sites I've been on are full of trolls. I;'ll admit I don;t see much of it here but I'm sure it's going on.

So while this may be viewed as criticism of the forum and the people of their intent, no,, not at all. However the Lyme or chronically ill person has possibly grabbed unto a flawed approach.. OK so the LLMD's try, they care,, at $300-500 dollars per hr they care. However, they are not curing anybody with any reasonable success.

Everything you said, can easily be flipped on alternative and herbalists such as Dr. Klinghardt, Dr. Rawls, and Stephen Buhner.

Mark FW said...

Second.. the Lyme culture is a club in itself. I no longer hold to the beliefs talked about on this forum nor the Lyme Literate community

And I think the word you're looking for is tribalism, where people form to one group over another and don't stay open minded to other one's claims, becoming a bigot basically. You claim others on this forum are doing this, but then you yourself state that you have the cure for chronic lyme and claim others are giving out wrong information.

What if, by some sort of way, all these treatments have their uses in Chronic Lyme Disease? Not necessarily cure lyme, but help you get better slowly but surely. Why not think it on those lines...

But I get it, I know a lot of you are looking to cure your Lyme, as I was too. But I can assure you if you've gone chronic, you need to be thinking longterm and taking one day at a time, rather than jumping the gun and thinking you're going to cure this disease within a year or two. Yes it's very scary thought that some patients can be on abx for 2 years without much improvement, but sadly, guess what, whether you're doing herbs or some sort of chelation therapy, same thing can happen to you with this treatment as well. Amy Tan who went down the herbal route is a great example, I think it was 20 years before she reached remission... There's still no magic cure, despite what people are claiming. Regardless, I'm still looking forward to seeing your proof Mark FW, hearing that you said 100s.. 1000s lyme patients have been cured from the ACC (Andy Cutler Chelation) Heavy Metal/Mercury protocol ...

Mark FW said...


Case is point, several weeks ago someone posts that they've been on abx for 2 years, no improvement and no herx. Many jumped in and told him that 2 years was not enough time. Please, think about this.

I mean there's many of us hoping that some of these persister cell drugs like Dapsone, can take a few years off our treatment just like Pyrazinamide did for Tuberculosis patients. Is it going to be for everyone? Of course not, but it may lead to other progress and breakthroughs on treating persister cells and biofilm busters.

Maybe try pairing up the biofilm busters Dr. H mentioned, with some of the perister cell essential oils. Hint Hint... https://www.facebook.com/natcaplyme/videos/1993190314050023/

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 11/12/2018 2:39:28 AM (GMT-7)

here's two good short Dr. Vincent videos on LDI which i think explains it well from his angle.

https://youtu.be/8cq33buc9zc

https://youtu.be/twdb8bapolw

Rikky1 said...
here's two good short Dr. Vincent videos on LDI which i think explains it well from his angle.

https://youtu.be/8cq33buc9zc

https://youtu.be/twdb8bapolw

It's certainly worth a try Rikky1

Harmless if it doesn't work, right?


I watched his entire series a couple years ago.

I listened to an interview and dr. J was asked what percentage. He said 80% (that was 2017) but if people would stick with it...he figured he could get another 10% (90%).

I don't know if he says it unless people ask.
(Not sure in Rikky's case )

80% does sound a bit 'lofty' but IDK - I'd like to believe it. Maybe we mostly hear about people who don't get well...not the ones that do?
And...possibly there are a lot of acute...or early disseminated cases he treats that bump up the %.

The people in my 'area' (geographically) that I have connected with - most have gotten better.
They're not Dr. J patients though...and most were acute cases and early chronic (ie under a year) before getting treatment.

Thought this post would be dead but since it's not. Going to respond to a few points raised.

First, I'm not opposed to abx and scripts in general but more the use and yes I do also have issues with some herbalist approaches. Mostly the king of con, the famous Dr K. More on that below.

The point I'm trying to make is that we are addressing Lyme an the co-infections as the primary offenders to our chronic condition. "We have Lyme" that's what we say. I no longer feel this is the case. Or better said Lyme is not the root cause of my condition. I feel my body is in a compromised state that allow these infections to flourish. IMHO. Once you put it into that perspective it changes how you look at it.

So that's a very subjective view I'll admit.

So now lets take a look at some objective points.

So lets look at the differences between mainstream docs versus the LLMD. One says we don't have Lyme the other says we do and is willing to treat. All the differences stop there.

Their approach to treatment is to mostly kill bugs. The same people telling us to take years of abx studied under the same medical protocol as the non-LLMD group . I'm not a doctor but it appears to me their treating a chronic condition with acute treatment methods. Killing bugs = Getting better, is their strategy. Why, it's because that is what they were taught. Good intentions maybe. But that's it., they try, but their healing methods are the same as the non-LLMD. (The group we don't trust anymore) However, they're cut from the same cloth as the saying goes.

Plus it's not working or has a poor track record.. Therefore I did take the approach of "Do no more harm" meaning using a broad spectrum anti-microbial herbs that also has anti-inflammatory properties would do less harm than abx. Also the Herb track record seemed about as good as abx. So why not.

So in short I feel there is too little understanding about the nature of this infection to continue risk taking long term abx. So it's success versus risk. Yes subjective but we all need to be our own advocates.

Now the herbs.

Buhner: I do like his book and a very good resource but it did not pass the constancy test.. What works what doesn't, what brand , what dose?? Bottom line, I'm not smart enough to develop a protocol with too many variables. Too much for compromised brain to handle.

Rawls: Actually it was Buhner's introduction to tinctures that turned me away from Rawls. Just felt liquid could provide a higher concentration of the good stuff.

I chose Cowden due to the following:
A: I did not want to go on abx long term. (Do no more harm)
B: It was well packaged and seemed to coverall the possible infections (for a Brain impaired person)
C: Most important is it was protocol consistently. You have lots of people doing roughly the same treatment. Sure I read that some people, herxed with one herb that I did not and vice versus,, but we were all on the same protocol.

So now we get to Dr Klinghardt the biggest self promoter in the Lyme industry. He blasts his name all over the Internet and utube. I'm sure he's delighted to have posted.

The most inconstant one of them all. Mold, HM. Retrovirus that can only be cured with Cistus tea from Catalonia. Last year this was the most important announcement he made. (Never talks about it anymore) Now its EMF.. He sounds real convincing lays out 95% of was the issue is then casually plugs a Biopure or now a KI Science product at the end. Never stuck with a cause or a strategy. And he still doesn't know.

Even takes Dr Su's parasite protocol and added a Biopure herb on the end and calls it his. This man has no shame. A 21st century snake oil salesman.

So as I'm writing this I realize outside of the possible root cause factor of HM/Mercury and that ACC is a protocol with a relativity high success rate.. Most important to me is it's lots of people all following the same protocol framework with many say it's working.. Same with Cowden.

So getting back to the everyone its different. Thats not the pattern of medicine and treatment. With this approach we'll never know what really cures it and allows the LLMD to have no accountability. "Hey everyone is different" Ok the shotgun approach is appropriate at times,, See what works.. But not with powerful pharmaceuticals.. Will I take them in the future?? Sure maybe, I have a stockpile never used but if I do it will not be LT. I have my own feelings on this but we each have a choice.

Be your own advocate and if your helping someone make a choice to a treatment plan you then need to be responsible and convey the risks or at a min encourage them to question their LLMD extensively.

This is actually the first I've heard of the Andy Cutler protocol so I'm curious who has healed from it too.

One more comment.. Yes admittedly broad stroke comment on ACC stats.

Here's what know:

* Members on adult Forum = 52K
* Moderators = 38
* Post & Comments per day =1, 200 (I read hours of these posts nightly)

I've been a Member since Late Aug 2018

Most are questions about nuances of the protocol. Dose. taking breaks, round times, support supplements.Most report ongoing improvements,

Number of persons I've read about that have had no progress = 3 (Not kidding)

1. Guy just recently committed suicide. He had Lyme and was Floxed. ( I guess this incident had a impact on my stance. This really bothered me when I read it last week)
2. Girl who claim to be Chelating for 5 years, Never had Mercury redistribution symptom ( Kinda like not ever getting better and never herxing. Had very few prior post.
3. Another guy like above but much shorter time.

There are people that try and don't have a significant HM load I'm sure.

Most Moderators are or have been on AC with successful results.

Not seeing this anywhere else.. Nothing close.

Is there something wrong with Buhner and Rawls?

Girlie said...
You say the AC treatment has a high success rate - I have a couple questions- comments.

How many of the successes are people who don’t have lyme and co’s but have had high level mercury exposure coupled with the genetics that reduces their ability to detox/remove it?

Need to answer in groups:

Question 1: Not sure how many have Lyme.. I ran across many but before I answer I must state that AC's (Andy Cutlers) position on Lyme was he suspected many cases had a high probability of being due to mercury. So since the Forum rules are limited to using ACC protocol and this position is known, the debate is off topic and against forum rules. (due to sheer volume of post topics) However when I run across some,, we PM sometimes to compare notes. So for AC, this conclusion is based on that proved mercury toxicity disrupts your ability to absorb essential minerals.. Weakens your immune system and reeks havoc on you body.

Mercury toxicity symptoms are almost identical to the Lyme body type and Bart head type systems.. Instead of landing on Lyme, many found mercury toxicity first. Due to recent dental work or vaccines.. Tintinusis ear ringing. Pressure headaches, anxiety fatigue, adrenal many with low Vit D and adverse reaction to the supplement. (Vit D issue is Lead)

The really cool thing is being a chemist he came up with a supplement protocol to combat the effects of the Mercury. Including adrenals.. Once people who follow this and have it work,,(really well for me) we make the change.

Good thing to note Is I have seen people get a limited response to this first step and I suspect they may lose interest.

Need to run.. I'll be back on line later.

Girlie said...
You say the AC treatment has a high success rate - I have a couple questions- comments.

And if the success rate is so high -you mentioned hundreds or thousands - I would think I’d know at least one person in my location who has healed with the AC mercury protocol ? Not one.

Seems to be new to have Lyme impacted people finding out about this. I think since most are under the guidance of LLMD's and not looking in this direction.

Since LLMD's are under the AMA influence, Mercury is not a threat.. They downplay vaccine risks, actually promote them. And have been told their whole lives that dental amalgams are safe and that mercury poisoning is at most only a workplace risk.

So get this,, even though a MD/LLDM may suspect mercury, the medical protocol is to ask you what you do for work. If you say you work in a office versus say a foundry, your cleared of Mercury..Move on, next step is to assess if you could a syphilis candidate (more MD but I did have one joke that I didn't seem like a Candide but I think he was fishing to see what my response may be)

Right or wrong, this site points people to LLMD's and they are a MD first and a LLMD second.

I see more come from NP's/Alternative who suspect mercury and to a urine stress test using high DMSP dosage and or IV DMSP. This only works on acute poisoning. Long term mercury is like Lyme, it's no longer in the blood and in the tissues/organs/brain. They get very sick and start googling of seem to find out about ACC.

Girlie said...


coupled with the genetics that reduces their ability to detox/remove it?

What I am questioning is that this protocol is the “be all and end all” -and it is the driver of our illness. (Instead of the infections - lyme and co’s)

So I mentioned the need to take on things in smaller groups.

I did not answer the rest of the first question.

So yes the AC theory is that there is some genetic or environmental mix that prevents some people from naturally detoxing Mercury. Andy had his suspicions but focused more on the how to fix. Funny I never thought that if chronic Lyme is usually coupled with a detox issues. Could this detox defect had been the same for mercury or vise versa. That is an interesting thought. Kinda like the chicken or the egg.

So good lead in to the next question. Is this the "be all and end all" ??

My response is yes there's a possibility and I'd say high probability if your mercury toxic. YES I really think this is the case and so did AC..

So lets look at which had the higher probability of being the root cause.

Lyme: We know Lyme is a natural occurrence. And in a perfect world the body should be able to deal with it. And we know many do.

Mercury: On the other hand is a man induced known modified toxic substance that we put in our body. Andy proved that when you add all of the mercury in all the vaccines that in itself puts you at toxic levels and disrupts that body to function properly. Some worse than others. (Per AC. Forget about fish. it's whats injected into you and the chunks in your mouth that are the issue)

I don"t think Nature has gone haywire. My bet is on this is a Man made issue.

Edit: Sorry in the context of this question I'm not so presumptuous to think this is the overall cure to all Lyme cases..For me yes, its why I'm changing(have changed) my Treatment strategy .

Could be for many others.

Post Edited (Mark FW) : 11/12/2018 5:44:43 PM (GMT-7)

Mark FW said...

Girlie said...
You say the AC treatment has a high success rate - I have a couple questions- comments.

And if the success rate is so high -you mentioned hundreds or thousands - I would think I’d know at least one person in my location who has healed with the AC mercury protocol ? Not one.

Seems to be new to have Lyme impacted people finding out about this. I think since most are under the guidance of LLMD's and not looking in this direction.

Since LLMD's are under the AMA influence, Mercury is not a threat.. They downplay vaccine risks, actually promote them. And have been told their whole lives that dental amalgams are safe and that mercury poisoning is at most only a workplace risk.

So get this,, even though a MD/LLDM may suspect mercury, the medical protocol is to ask you what you do for work. If you say you work in a office versus say a foundry, your cleared of Mercury..Move on, next step is to assess if you could a syphilis candidate (more MD but I did have one joke that I didn't seem like a Candide but I think he was fishing to see what my response may be)

Right or wrong, this site points people to LLMD's and they are a MD first and a LLMD second.

I see more come from NP's/Alternative who suspect mercury and to a urine stress test using high DMSP dosage and or IV DMSP. This only works on acute poisoning. Long term mercury is like Lyme, it's no longer in the blood and in the tissues/organs/brain. They get very sick and start googling of seem to find out about ACC.

I can't speak about all LLMD's but many do not recommend vaccinations. My LLND doesn't...I haven't asked Dr. J because I'm not interested in getting the flu vaccine.

I don't know what you mean by "MD first and LLMD second".