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Arthritis With Japanese Knotweed & Andrographis

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Posted 3/5/2019 10:35 PM (GMT 0)
I am using 60 drops per day each of Japanese knotweed and Andrographis. Not a high dose. When I take either or both, it exacerbates Lyme disease arthritis symptoms across my body. I'm guessing, that I'm having Herx reaction, after using both tinctures for a little over a week. Has anyone used these tinctures and had them exacerbate Lyme disease arthritis symptoms? If so, how long did the accentuated arthritis last, before it passed?

Post Edited (Aylett) : 3/6/2019 7:45:07 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/5/2019 11:36 PM (GMT 0)
I’ve taken the JK before.


It sounds like you are herxing - which results in a worsening of symptoms and/or new symptoms.
Posted 3/6/2019 12:34 AM (GMT 0)
Agreed, sounds like a pretty straightforward herx. I know it's unpleasant, but it's good news that you found a treatment that is working on your infections! You can dial back the dose if the effects are too strong to handle.
Posted 3/6/2019 2:49 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for your responses. I am wondering if either of you have any information on how long this pain will last. At least for the time being, it does seem to be getting worse. Do you have any thoughts on how long a Herxheimer reaction including Lyme disease arthritis would last?
Posted 3/6/2019 9:40 PM (GMT 0)
low dosing may stun pathogens driving them deeper in connective tissue where blood perfusion is less. some llmd warn against this. for bad arthritis i had to treat bart and myco extensively. bee venom creme offered immediate relief for me
Posted 3/6/2019 10:43 PM (GMT 0)
The higher I raise the dose, the worse it gets. I went with the dosage on the sage woman bottle. Maybe, I should call them and ask about dosage.
Posted 3/6/2019 11:00 PM (GMT 0)

Aylett said...
The higher I raise the dose, the worse it gets. I went with the dosage on the sage woman bottle. Maybe, I should call them and ask about dosage.

Lower your dosage until you get back to your baseline. Then increase slowlyyyyy. You probably started out at too high a dose or ramped up too fast. Herbs are strong and can cause just as much herxing as abx.

Japanese knotweed definitely increased my joint stiffness. So did cat’s claw. Never took andrographis. My joint stiffness is rarely noticeable anymore. I did just what I suggested - backed off to a tolerable dosage and slowly increased.
Posted 3/7/2019 11:44 AM (GMT 0)
Buhner recommends 1/4 tsp 3x per day as starting point. 1/4 tsp is 20 drops with my dropper. I started out at his minimum dosage and have not gone up from there. Do you think I should back off even further?

BTW, cat's claw has no effect on my joints. I got up to 60 drops 3x/day before starting JK. No problem with joints, but still having Lyme symptoms. JK creates joint issues but decreases fatigue, hot flashes, muscle cramping...you know the rest. Still taking cat's claw, chinese cats claw, dan shen at 60 drops 3x/day. Good for overall support.

Post Edited (Aylett) : 3/7/2019 4:49:53 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/7/2019 4:00 PM (GMT 0)

Aylett said...
Buhner recommends 1/4 tsp 3x per day as starting point. 1/4 tsp is 20 drops with my dropper. I started out at his minimum dosage and have not gone up from there. Do you think I should back off even further?

BTW, cat's claw has no effect on my joints. I got up to 60 drops 3x/day before starting JK. No problem with joints, but still having Lyme symptoms. JK creates joint issues but decreases fatigue, hot flashes, muscle cramping...you know the rest. Still taking cat's claw, chinese cats claw, dan shen at 60 drops 3x/day. Good for overall support.

Yes back off on the dose.
No matter what the dose is - everyone is different. Start lower and increase slowly as tolerated.
Stay at the dose for awhile and you can try to increase it after a while - by a few drops.
Posted 3/7/2019 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
The naturopaths, LLMDs, and herbalists that I have seen all agree that starting with a tiny dose - even one drop - definitely counts as treatment. Ramp up very slowly if you tend to be sensitive and have strong herxes. You want a little herxing (most believe) but an amount mild enough to allow you to feed yourself, get to the bathroom, and avoid the ER! My LLMD even recommends placing one drop of a new herb into a glass of water and taking a drink after it has dissipated, to start. Of course, I am on the very sensitive end of things, but I offer that as an example of how whatever dose you can handle is YOUR correct dose of treatment. One size definitely does not fit all.

You might herx for a long time on the right treatment, like many months, especially when you raise your dosage, but lowering your dosage and increasing slowly should make it more manageable.

Some might disagree with this, but I encourage you not to push too hard through bad herxes in order to progress faster with treatment. Serious pain and inflammation can crash your adrenal system and trigger other issues that can be just as complex to treat as the infections you are targeting. But of course I understand how hard it is to be patient about any of this!

Good luck!
Posted 3/7/2019 11:22 PM (GMT 0)
Aylett,

Buhner’s starting doses are way too high for many people. If using tinctures, it’s a good idea to start at 5 drops and carefully increase from there.

If I had started Buhner’s protocol with all the herbs at once at the starting dose, I most likely would have ended up in the ER if not the cemetery. I’m super sensitive.
Posted 3/7/2019 11:40 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for all the good ideas. and for sharing your personal experiences. I think it's time for me to back off on the Japanese knotweed and andrographis. Maybe try 10 drops 3x/day and go from there.

I started Buhner's support herbs first. Then tried to add in the 2 main antimicrobials and ran into trouble.
Posted 3/7/2019 11:47 PM (GMT 0)

Aylett said...
Thanks for all the good ideas. and for sharing your personal experiences. I think it's time for me to back off on the Japanese knotweed and andrographis. Maybe try 10 drops 3x/day and go from there.

I started Buhner's support herbs first. Then tried to add in the 2 main antimicrobials and ran into trouble.

Yep, those antimicrobials can pack a wallop!!
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