HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Thoughts on the flu vaccine for chronically sick people?

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic locked
1 23
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 3/13/2019 2:35 AM (GMT 0)
Here is the immunization schedule I referenced

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/immunization-chart.html
Posted 3/13/2019 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Holy moly that’s a lot of vaccines
Posted 3/13/2019 8:24 PM (GMT 0)

Noah2112 said...
Measles is quite obviously returning because people are not vaccinating. Anyone who can't see that is willfully ignorant of that fact. It's returning only in populations of people who have not been vaccinated for a reason. Vaccines are usually safe for immune competent people (although there are vaccines that carry some risks). Immuno compromised individuals should not get vaccines and because of that it is paramount that everyone else does. Herd Immunity will protect those who can't receive the vaccines for medical reasons, but you have to reach over 97% vaccinated before the coverage is comprehensive enough to be effective.

Now the flu vaccine isn't all that effective and in people with questionable immune competency I think it's a tough call. But for healthy individuals all of the mainstream vaccines should be strongly encouraged, it protects all of the people who cannot receive the vaccines too. But only if everyone else gets them.

Aren't all public school attendees required to have this vaccine to enroll? If so, is this Measles renaissance to be blamed on home or private schoolers? Or are schools no longer requiring students to be vaccinated? They are required in my state. I was not aware Measles was returning.
Posted 3/13/2019 9:03 PM (GMT 0)
In my state you are allowed to opt out if you have religious or philosophical objections. There is a bill being presented before the legislature that would make it mandatory for all, with no exceptions. I believe California already has such a law in place
Posted 3/13/2019 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
Here in Canada, it's not mandatory.....yet.

People just keep their kids home the day of vaccinations.


There's a movement toward making it reported though ....so that the public schools know who is and who isn't vaccinated.
Posted 3/13/2019 10:30 PM (GMT 0)
It is such a heated topic and I can see both sides. Nobody wants their child to become sick from either not receiving their vaccines or by being vaccinated. I truly believe that people have adverse reactions to particular vaccinations and science, (much like with Lyme) has not figured out why some people that are vaccinated have zero issues and others at times have severe life threatening reactions. This may be a tad controversial to suggest but rather than spending billions of dollars on a supposed crisis at the U.S. Southern border, maybe it's time we use that money to solve these medical mysteries.
Posted 3/13/2019 11:23 PM (GMT 0)
My son relapsed significantly two weeks after getting a flu vaccine several years ago, he had been symptom free for almost 3 years. I had a very rough year after getting a tetanus booster with symptoms kicking up a week after getting it.

I would love to get a flu shot if I could. I have been sick for a month with the flu, in bed for almost 2 weeks and then lingering symptoms. I don't get sick very often with colds etc.. but if I do its usually pretty bad.
Posted 3/14/2019 2:28 AM (GMT 0)
WalkingByFaith, the whole premise that vaccines cause autism was based on false evidence. Enough said.
Posted 3/14/2019 1:19 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
WalkingByFaith, the whole premise that vaccines cause autism was based on false evidence. Enough said.

What false evidence? My point, jb1994, that you obviously didn’t get from reading my posts or some of the others is that doctors and researchers DO NOT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND the mechanisms by which people are having adverse issues following vaccines - whether it’s autism, allergies, chronic Lyme onset or relapses, autoimmune, and the list could go on.

The derogatory comments you made about anti vaxxers and autism were offensive and uncalled for. You could have just simply said that you did not believe that vaccines cause autism without insulting and slandering groups of people.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 3/14/2019 7:22:52 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/14/2019 1:49 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
WalkingByFaith, the whole premise that vaccines cause autism was based on false evidence. Enough said.

So what causes autism?

Right, the medical community does NOT know. So please do not rule out vaccines as one of the possible causes. So often we are told things are safe, and then later are told they are not.

The amount of adults and children experiencing negative vaccine reactions is growing. These are the people leading this movement.

Please site your medical study that the autism/vaccine connection is built on false evidence. Double check who funded the study and conflicts of interest.
Posted 3/14/2019 2:47 PM (GMT 0)
There is a book about treating autism by dr Natasha Campbell-McBride, the author that created GAPS diet. She thinks that the problem with vaccines is that children who are born nowadays are born with considerable toxic load that they inherit from their parents, and then on top of that they don't get one vaccine at a time, but three (MMR), and their immune system just can't handle that.
Dr Klinghardt also treats autism, there are interesting videos with him discussing possible causes, viruses and heavy metals being some of them. Vaccines can also be contaminated with heavy metals. Here's an interesting lecture, right at beginning he also mentions dr Jeff Bradstreet, a pioneer in treating autism who was killed, so the situation with autism is similar to the one with lyme, it's all dirty politics.
https://youtu.be/kd3ft5si01e
Posted 3/15/2019 1:13 AM (GMT 0)
I made no derogatory statements about anti vaccine people. Autism is genetic. I don't feel like i need to explain what causes it, it's easily searchable on the internet. They do know what causes it. They do know it is not vaccines. I don't have a link to the original study because I thought that was just common knowledge. The fact that autism is on the rise is due to the change in diagnostic criteria for it. Why don't you link me to a study and double check who funded the study and conflicts of interest? The anti vaccine movement started with Facebook and it's just nonsense. I'v had this argument too many times to bother because the type of people who think they know better will not listen.
Posted 3/15/2019 2:30 AM (GMT 0)
“The anti vaccine movement started with Facebook and it's just nonsense. “

That’s not true. There was anti vaccine movement as far back as 2000/2001
Just not as large as it is now.
Posted 3/15/2019 3:08 AM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
I don't feel like i need to explain what causes it, it's easily searchable on the internet. They do know what causes it.

I don’t know who “they” are that you’re referring to, but the NIH does not know what causes and states it is likely multiple factors including genetics and environmental and immune alterations that could be different depending on the person - pretty much what I and others suggested.

https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/autism/conditioninfo/causes
Posted 3/15/2019 4:05 AM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
Flu vaccines are unnecessary IMO. Disease vaccines are important I believe. Vaccines do not cause autism, that is just Facebook trash propagated by angry parents who "lost" the genetic lottery (not really because there is nothing wrong with autism). All the anti-vac autism stuff is based on emotional arguments and really angers me. I'm glad they're trying to prevent that spread of mis-information. It's not a matter of opinion.

Wow. open your eyes and look at the big picture. Have you forgotten what freedom is? This is censorship, which is not freedom. If you think this will stop at "vaxxers", think again.
Posted 3/15/2019 4:15 AM (GMT 0)
"Thoughts on the flu vaccine for chronically sick people?"

Although "cured", I still have low immune lab values. And autoimmune issues for years. (some did improve).

Guess how immunologists test your immune system? With the newest flu vaccine (23 versions vs the old 12 or so).

As product of the 1960's, I never had this newest one. And Ive never had the flu as amazing as it sounds, even with a low (volume) immune system. Volume and strength and not the same. And I was explained that strength in numbers does not apply here.

I ride the fence on this one, but based on my current and past health, decided not to get the flu vax.
Posted 3/15/2019 9:55 PM (GMT 0)
Oh goodness sake. The anti-vaxx movement is just an example of the deadly combination of the Dunning-Kruger effect and social media groupthink. It has nothing to do with censorship.

How many times has autism directly killed someone? Zero. How many times have unvaccinated people died or infected someone else that died, or at least got majorly sick? Infinitely more times.

Here is the number one result about causes of autism:

https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-causes-autism

Genetics, then environment, then some miscellaneous things like parents' age and pregnancy complications. Special mention of not vaccines.

Here is a link about the original vaccine autism study:

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/27/17057990/andrew-wakefield-vaccines-autism-study

I vote we stop talking about vaccines on this board altogether. It seems to only make people feel personally attacked.

Post Edited (jb1994) : 3/15/2019 3:58:00 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/16/2019 3:02 AM (GMT 0)
Honestly, I am open to vaccines but want doctors to acknowledge risks. I also want the option to opt out. If there’s risk there should be choice.

Vaccines have killed people. 4 billion paid out in vaccine injury to date. You can look up the deaths.

I personally don’t believe autism is more prevelant due to better diagnosis. I could understand a slight increase but not 1 in 50 or whatever it is now. My children have at least one autistic child in there classes now. I have seen it steadily rise. In the last 5 years we’ve had two diagnosed within our family. Before that, zero. The symptoms are not something that would have been missed or unrecognized 10 years ago - these kids are nonverbal.

I do believe there are some genetic and environmental causes - likely glyphosate and other junk. But then, glyphosate was actually found in vaccines...https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/glyphosate_found_in_childhood_vaccines. So maybe the focus needs to be on cleaning the crap out of vaccines.

Vaccines are a hot button, for sure.

Post Edited (k07) : 3/16/2019 12:41:37 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/27/2019 3:53 PM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...
Per Prior Poster: "The anti vaccine movement started with Facebook and it's just nonsense."
Well, that's just silly. I was researching vaccines before Facebook (before 2003) was even released (yes, that dates how old I am LOL), and there was definitely a strong, albeit small, anti vaccine population. smile

I agree with 1000Daisies - I was aware of it approximately 2000/2001
Posted 4/27/2019 4:19 PM (GMT 0)
My mom used to talk about getting measles, mumps and chicken pox as more of a necessary inconvenience.
(And send us out to play when there was an outbreak in the neighbourhood)

The stories of severe reactions seemed to be few and far between.

I only had chicken pox - I guess I’m supposed to get vaccinated for measles ?
I should check if I ever had a vaccination for it - not sure what year they started.
Posted 4/27/2019 9:05 PM (GMT 0)
To pro-vaxxers who are using the AMA line that we need all these vaccines and that Autisim is genetic.

This is the same group that says Chronic Lyme doesn’t exist. So if that the case, why are you here?

I respect your position to vaccinate. Respect mine and others not to. If you’re vaccinated why are you worried about getting our germs, your protected. We’ll all die off and the world will be yours.
Posted 4/27/2019 10:01 PM (GMT 0)

Mark FW said...
To pro-vaxxers who are using the AMA line that we need all these vaccines and that Autisim is genetic.

This is the same group that says Chronic Lyme doesn’t exist. So if that the case, why are you here?

I respect your position to vaccinate. Respect mine and others not to. If you’re vaccinated why are you worried about getting our germs, your protected. We’ll all die off and the world will be yours.

Mark - I’m not sure you can put all the pro-vaxers in the chronic Lyme disbelievers group.
The fear is for those who can’t vaccinate - they are at risk.

Not saying I agree - I’m in the middle - with our son, I weighed out the pros and cons of each. Some I just delayed until he was older and others just denied.
One I denied was the Hep vaccine (maybe C?) that youre at risk with IV drug use and sexual activity.
This was offered when he was in grade 5 or 6. He was still playing leggos in his bedroom after school... wtf? And when he got older we had a discussion about it when he was going off to University. Now I can’t remember if he ended up having it - I would have to check his vax booklet.
Posted 4/28/2019 1:10 AM (GMT 0)
Well, the measles is on the rise and that's deadly. So given the (non) chance that vaccines might cause autism, that is much preferable than death. That's all I have to say. I can't stay in this debate for long because it just enrages me.
Posted 4/28/2019 1:32 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
Well, the measles is on the rise and that's deadly. So given the (non) chance that vaccines might cause autism, that is much preferable than death. That's all I have to say. I can't stay in this debate for long because it just enrages me.

I get so mad defending those that vaccines have hurt. I feel like we just have to agree to disagree. My son had a vaccine reaction so my personal experience opened my eyes. Do you believe in vaccine choice? I want the freedom to no longer vaccinate my son. I can’t fathom him having the same experience again, or worse, something that he can’t recover from. He could be fine, but why would I roll the dice on vaccines that most of us haven’t even had (meningitis, hpv).

The fear mongering really gets me.

Measles is on the rise, but so is autism!

I don’t deny most vaccines work (i do think a few may not), but as a parent I need better studies (unbiased) that answer my questions and satisfy my concerns. To date, none do.

Post Edited (k07) : 4/28/2019 7:36:50 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/29/2019 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
I don't know what to tell you because there are so many studies out there and almost universally doctors agree they don't care autism. You're never going to find an unbiased study. It just won't happen. Scientists need funding and that comes from organizations or the government and both have their own interests. Autism diagnostic criteria have changed in the span of time autism has supposedly risen. It wasn't even considered a disease for a long time - kids were just considered "slow".
✚ New Topic locked
123