Metronidazole and Bart.

the latest study on bart drugs that just came out yesterday, it lists the top 41 drugs with good activity against bart. Flagyl isnt on that list...note these are in vitro

https://www.mdpi.com/2079-6382/8/2/50/htm?fbclid=IwAR0sVBSLBFjgOyhBaXcnEbl00dC-Ax1GMtT_uFaxJlGQ4aONSgMbPdB27rI

Post Edited (sierraDon) : 5/1/2019 1:34:30 PM (GMT-6)

I agree, i would like to see the complete list of drugs used in the study.

bluelyme said...
i did tinidazole for a while and it may or may not hit bart . flagyl is a carcinogen and drops grown men to their knees herx wise. keep us posted

Interesting blue - I haven’t herxed on Flagyl - no response at all.

Maybe because I’m just pulsing it for two days at a time?


Yah mice got bladder cancer from it -

Girlie said...
Interesting blue - I haven’t herxed on Flagyl - no response at all.

Maybe because I’m just pulsing it for two days at a time?

I took flagyl and herxed from it, and I only took it for a few days. I also got adnenal insufficiency from it, which is why I'm no longer taking it.

The effects of flagyl were a bit delayed. I was herxing a week later.

Dr M seems to be the leading bartonella expert, given his connection to Galaxy. i would consider him a bartonella expert. Phillips is a self-claimed bartonella expert, who takes more of introductory conservative approach. neither of these guys use Flagyl.

I wonder if Dr. H recommends Flagyl now given he is pushing his dapsone combination protocol...curious if anyone can comment on that

Every doc has their preferences, for me, i wanted to minimize risk where I could, like no flagyl/tindy or cipro.

Dr M i believe uses various combos and herbals, but focus is on rifampin/rifabutin. i dont know if he offers Mepron. Phillips does, i think he always did, it wasn't the center point of his treatment plans tho. I dont think Phillips uses the dapson or daraprim, he does minimal risk, and uses less aggressive approaches.

Curious if Dr H uses Flagyl, i see MR doesn't recommend it either (tho he still recommends Tindy) if so, Dr J would be the minority using Flagyl by a good handful of the leaders. I

i am more of a fan of rifabutin in combo with other herbals like the OoO, stevia, etc. since i had success with it. that was the persister drug for me in combo with mino, azith, plus OoO, stevia, lauricidin, biocidin. i remember lots of discussion about this last year on here. but i believe bart and lyme were always my main problem, babesia and ehrlichia not so much

ah, i see he doesnt list in his introductory protocol, just tinda https://www.treatlyme.net/lyme-disease-treatment-guidelines
but lists later.

i didn't like the cancer risk with it, but understand people desperate to try anything.

Rifabutin didn't have that effect on me, just slow gradual improvement. I am a believer in that taken daily, but everyone has their preference.

OriolCarol said...
I can't take rifamycins anymore... I have flu like syndrome... more sick than in december!!!!!

Oriol - what are your symptoms?
How you know it’s not a herx?

Rifabutin herxes gave me a fever and body pain along with high heart rate ....

Quin said...

Girlie said...
Rifabutin herxes gave me a fever and body pain along with high heart rate ....

That's probably lipopolysaccharide from dead bartonella, although high heart rate could be due to adrenal stress from the rifabutin.

/////////////////////////////////////////////

They were herxes

Girlie said...

sierraDon said...
the latest study on bart drugs that just came out yesterday, it lists the top 41 drugs with good activity against bart. Flagyl isnt on that list...note these are in vitro

https://www.mdpi.com/2079-6382/8/2/50/htm?fbclid=IwAR0sVBSLBFjgOyhBaXcnEbl00dC-Ax1GMtT_uFaxJlGQ4aONSgMbPdB27rI

Rifampin is listed - I’m curious about Rifabutin - if it was part of the study.

I would like to know if rifabutin was part of the study too, they didn't seem to disclose the complete drug library other than the top 41 hits and a few others that didn't make the cut. Clearly clinical experience from a lot of docs demonstrates rifabutin is a heavy hitter against bartonella

OriolCarol, Rifabutin taxes the adrenal system, Dr M i believe does a lot of support of adrenals when prescribing rifampin/rifabutin, that may be contributin a lot to your adverse reactions to it

Oriol - Those symptoms -(fever is hallmark herx) can be a herx - Fever (plus more) on Rifabutin was a herx for me after a few years of treatment.
And the longer I’m on Rifabutin the less severe and shorter lived the herxes are.

So what do you think a herx is?

Girlie said...

sierraDon said...
Dr M seems to be the leading bartonella expert, given his connection to Galaxy. i would consider him a bartonella expert. Phillips is a self-claimed bartonella expert, who takes more of introductory conservative approach. neither of these guys use Flagyl.

I wonder if Dr. H recommends Flagyl now given he is pushing his dapsone combination protocol...curious if anyone can comment on that

Yes, he is considered to be an expert in Bart. But, I do know a few patients (and former patients) that said he wouldn't treat them for Babesia...even after years of treating bart. I didn't realize this a few years ago.
I wonder if it's because he treats many patients that perhaps don't also have lyme/babesia ...ie have gotten bart from their cat...and he sees good success just treating bart with those patients. Not sure if Dr. P is anymore an expert than Dr. H. and Dr. J.
Is Dr. P using any of the persister meds? (dapsone ...or daraprim)
So, I doubt Dr. M would use Flagyl... He's just using bart antibiotics. Last I heard he just uses biaxin and Rifampin/Rifabutin. (This was from a long-time patient - +3 years)

Do you know if he does offer Mepron or Malarone...etc for Babesia for some of his patients now?

...The Flagyl may not necessarily be for Bart...anyway...rather - lyme cyst form

In my experience with Dr M (16 months) he is a fantasticslly knowledgeable doc but he very strictly only treats based on labs. This includes his own findings from his own blood stains but regardless, still a tangible test.

When i went there i only had a positive bartonella test. He highly suspected babesia because of my neuropsych symptoms and did extensive protzoa & lyme testing- both of which came back negative. We did a year of bartonella treatment (Clarithromycin & Rifampin then Rifabutin) and after no recovery- he started doing blood stains again and sure enough- he found an "unknown intracellular protozoan parasite"

He told me he treats with Mepron as well as a few other RX antifungals that i don't remember. Dewormers i think. Regardless, he does use some well known babesia med.s but he only treats once he has some form of clinical diagnosis.

I didn't proceed with babesia treatment with him because i was already at Dr J's at that time and wanted to vest myself fully in their protocol