HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Q. for all who are treating/have treated Bartonella

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 9/5/2019 10:42 PM (GMT 0)
I see a lot of Bartonella posts going around. It’s making me think about my own bartonella experiences with treatment.

Right now, I am 2+ years into Buhner protocol. Since April 2018, I have been at a very low level maintenance dose of herbs 2x day. I did not try to increase doses after this point because I had pretty much been herxing the whole 10 months prior to that, as I increased doses at snail pace.

Anyway, since that time, I had flares of bart symptoms when taking Para-gone tincture mix from Woodland Essence. I was surprised and suspected the neem in the mixture might be breaking biofilm, causing the bartonella flare.

I saw a post the other day that listed the ingredients of A-Bart. I was shocked. It was the first time I had seen the ingredients. Most of it was herbs commonly found in herbal mixes for parasite treatment.

Bartonella is a bacteria, while babesia is a parasite. I don’t understand science enough to understand why anti-parasitic herbs have such an effect on bartonella.

Since many of you treat parasites and babesia in addition to bartonella and have likely used Rx anti-parasitics as well as herbs, have you experienced bartonella flares or herxes when treating with anti-parasitics?

Could it be that anti-parasitics are necessary for subduing bartonella?
Posted 9/5/2019 11:29 PM (GMT 0)
This is a hard one... I think it is very hard to know with certainty what infection is responsible for the herx symptoms, especially when treating with herbs as they can hit so many different things.
My daughter for a long while was struggling with profound fatigue and POTS symptoms. The shortness of breath had me focusing on babesia and I was surprised by how much of that resolved with rifampin. It’s hard to know what is what sometimes. What bart symptoms do you seem to be herxing with? I think sometimes the inflammation in general can be many things and not always specific to any one infection.
Posted 9/6/2019 12:24 AM (GMT 0)

Upatnite said...
This is a hard one... I think it is very hard to know with certainty what infection is responsible for the herx symptoms, especially when treating with herbs as they can hit so many different things.

I found the bart herx to be rather distinctive. Bartonella smelled really bad when it died. It also caused a lot of stomach pain. Apparently the toxins end up in the bile.
Posted 9/6/2019 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
Bartonella exhibits some parasitical tendencies hence why sometimes an anti-parasitical will be effective against it.

It’s quite unique to the individual the effectiveness of each abx for example there are some who have resolved Bart by using Doxy alone.

This is why we are all essentially human guinea pigs and can only take others experiences so far.
Posted 9/6/2019 12:37 AM (GMT 0)
Oh and per scientific literature bartonella is NOT supposed to cause a herx. Babesia for sure as it releases about two dozen toxins same as Candida.

Go figure...
Posted 9/6/2019 1:28 AM (GMT 0)
I've treated for parasites but didn't have any act up in Bart symptoms myself. I did a month of Alinia 2x a day.

Bartonella definitely causes a herx...in fact it's the only infection that does for me...
Posted 9/6/2019 1:59 AM (GMT 0)
Has anyone actually tried Byron White’s A-Bart? That’s what my LLMD wants me on next. I need to get rid of this thing as it’s causing havoc to my veins, brain, bones, etc, just like it is to everyone else with it. I wanted to see if it’s worthwhile, even though what works for one doesn’t work for all. I’ve studied the Buhner protocol and actually started some herbs he recommended awhile back, but had to stop because some herbs and MCAS don’t mix. It’s enough to make your head spin. Oral antibiotics aren’t touching this disease thanks to it’s double cell wall and hiding from the Abx by intertwining with your own DNA.
Posted 9/6/2019 4:44 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
I've treated for parasites but didn't have any act up in Bart symptoms myself. I did a month of Alinia 2x a day.

Bartonella definitely causes a herx...in fact it's the only infection that does for me...

Lipopolysaccharide (LPS, or endotoxin) is the main component of the outer membranes of gram-negative microorganisms however and endotoxin doesn't automatically mean bad for the person. they do have beneficial impact as well.

i'm wondering if our 'herxes' are more complex than just a direct correlation. for example bart could be causing some defense mechanism to cause your body to react in a negative way, not from toxins mind you.

in any event i know who cares if i feel like crap after killing bart well that's all that matters but if we know the mechanisms of action we can try and control (e.g. control cytokine cascade, etc.)
Posted 9/6/2019 6:09 PM (GMT 0)
The ND's I know carry one of the lines - ie Byron White, Beyond Balance, Cowden...etc. so off the forum, if I were to talk to their patients...they'd likely be on one of those.

It's much easier for them to prescribe those...and they most likely make some $$ on them.
Posted 9/6/2019 6:24 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
The ND's I know carry one of the lines - ie Byron White, Beyond Balance, Cowden...etc. so off the forum, if I were to talk to their patients...they'd likely be on one of those.

It's much easier for them to prescribe those...and they most likely make some $$ on them.

Girlie’s right about that. I have never met any medical practitioner who uses or recommends Buhner, but they have his books on their shelf, LOL!!! They aren’t going to recommend anything they can’t control. Buhner doesn’t have a product line for reasons that are clear to those who’ve read any of his books.

Yes. They make a LOT of money off products. The Functional MD who diagnosed me with CIRS sold me Readisorb Glutathione for $67 a bottle which lasts a week. I get it from Fullscript through my current doc for $45. My biological dentist sold me Revitin toothpaste for $18 a tube. I got it in bulk via Amazon for around $11.

I’m not saying Buhner’s protocol is better than the other herbal products. Just agreeing that anyone taking herbs recommended or sold by their practitioner isn’t likely to be using Buhner’s protocol.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply