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Bee Venom Therapy for Lyme Disease (bvt) - Part 5

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Posted 9/22/2019 2:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, I still continue, but still need to find right number of bee stings.
Now Im on 3 - 4 (this is allways OK for me), few times I did 6, but it already had some negative effects - like small fewer and big PEM next day.
First weeks I did one BVT/week, now two BVT/week with that 3-4 bee stings. I go to the apiary myself when I can. One is really close to our home.
Epsom salt bath next day after BVT makes me better last week for sure. This week is my CFS back in full prime :-(

I don’t know how long to continue unless there are consistent benefits...Im really sad from dead bees :-/

Another things what I do now and last weeks with BVT is Wim Hof method (trying it what happens) and Dr. David Brownstein Iodine protocol.

Post Edited (MartinK) : 9/22/2019 8:53:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/22/2019 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
at 9 months is when symptom relief really happened for me . i had to make room for toxin dieoff before i too could tolerate more bees . 10 bees 3x week is not for all shapes and weights but ramp as you see fit . are you taking a good b-12 and using spoonfuls of bee pollen from your local apirary ?. when you get a hive and plant flowers you will make more bees than you took to get well in just one season.... i think the iodine will help thyroid short term and the cold as long as your nerves and circulation aren't compromised you should be ok. keep us posted
Posted 9/23/2019 3:24 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks RC!

I'm doing very well atm.

Hit 1 year @ 10 stings at the beginning of the month.

I've been thinking lately wondering if bvts success has more to do with repairing the immune system than killing pathogens. Either way, I just got labs back from my pcp and my blood work has never looked better. The only possible issue is I tested positive on the ana test. But to be honest, I don't really care. I feel that lyme has given me somewhat of an autoimmune condition. But have learned that if I keep a clean diet and enough sleep I am good to go.

How are you?

And where are you at on your stings?
Posted 9/23/2019 12:57 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you RC.

Ellie says injectable venom is fine but not as effective as live bees. I've read of a few people that strictly used powdered venom and they did just fine.

Will you be able to use live bees again at some point?
Posted 9/23/2019 12:59 PM (GMT 0)

RainyCloud said...
Items used:


Tutorials used:
https://docdro.id/g7j1g0d

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oxf1xoj2fdc


How long will 4 grams last you?
Posted 9/23/2019 4:55 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, thanks a lot for support RainyCloud!
Problem is, Im really not sure, if Lyme & Co are still my problem. Hard to read and believe all bloodtests after years... fact is, my CD57 is still really low.
Im not sure, if Lyme makes my CFS and inflammation. This is why Im so sad from dead bees, if I'm not sure if I'm aiming at the right problem with them.
I feel a little guilty...but trying hard to continue with BVT.

I've really tried a lot treatments in 6 years, but nothing worked good for me :-/

I try, I test, make experiments...
Posted 9/23/2019 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
How do you guys grab the bees from deep within the hive during winter? I don't want to open the lid or they'll freeze to death.
Posted 9/25/2019 10:45 AM (GMT 0)
Insomniaaa-
In reference to going into the hive during the winter: place sugar board on top of upper hive body. Sugar board is bout 2" thick of dampened sugar on hardware cloth w/ hole in center, great for moisture control. On top of sugar board, place empty super and put some fondant in there. They will come up from below to get the fondant. Use a small bug vac to vacuum up the bees you need. The warmer it is, the more bees will be on the fondant. I've gone in to bout 20 degrees w/ no problems. Stock up on warmer days
Posted 9/26/2019 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
hi rc - i am doing pretty good!
energy wise my food habits of late are catching up. i got a handful of new clients and a student! the bees venom here is cooling down some with the weather so we may need a few more in winter than we did in summer. i am kinda really stoked we are about to create part 6 of the bvt thread! and i am more than elated that on the day the neuro said id be on a cpap deathbed i was at the trampoline park with my little one . i am passively treating her for bartonella which may be congenital passed. my heart goes out to those relapsing on abx or herbal treatment and wanna say for any lurkers if you have tried everything under the sun and want some sorta life back consider bvt . its usually the last option of desperate persons but with the data and proof in the proverbial pudding(microscopy) it should be first considerations . lucky for us its not for everyone...i know i need to address my candida from abx and herbal used while not quitting sugar and may have more gut healing in the future however i feel truly blessed to have been extended in life by the wonderful bees. someday i may add my moniker to the "healed" thread but lets say the nerve damage is never gunna heal i am grateful the bees stopped its progression while i could still hobble . please remember to plant your mint and buckwheat and flowers for the bees in the springtime. happy stinging
Posted 9/26/2019 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
bluelyme - You have permanent damage from these f---ing infections?
Don't you think over time those nerves can heal? It can take a long time. I read that shingles pain often takes a couple of years to resolve

I thought of you this past spring/summer when we decided to leave our dandelions bloom for several weeks in the spring before pulling them out....
Posted 9/26/2019 6:41 PM (GMT 0)
@ girlie
oh ya dont u? im not sure nor ever will be : whether it was the bugs diving down , eating nerves or concurrent nerve death from lps of neighboring dead bacteria or actual sulfa induced vasculitis and mild sjs syndrome- when i unsuspectingly took bactrim 10 day course . as a result the areas on my hands a feet ( all over muscle ) has "wasted" and has not recovered much . maybe with stems which aren't in the budget even if legal by the time i can afford em may or may not help.
but your missing the point - i am not in a wheelchair . or a using assisted breathing device .
i am back to work and creating.
i am not on a cpap
i do not eat pharmaceuticals daily
i am not in pain
i have energy for a life worth living thanks to bvt and other modalities. can you say the same with the modalities you have chosen . how long are you gunna give dr j's office ? at one time you considered bvt if your hubby would do the handling?
Posted 9/26/2019 7:48 PM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
@ girlie
oh ya dont u? im not sure nor ever will be : whether it was the bugs diving down , eating nerves or concurrent nerve death from lps of neighboring dead bacteria or actual sulfa induced vasculitis and mild sjs syndrome- when i unsuspectingly took bactrim 10 day course . as a result the areas on my hands a feet ( all over muscle ) has "wasted" and has not recovered much . maybe with stems which aren't in the budget even if legal by the time i can afford em may or may not help.
but your missing the point - i am not in a wheelchair . or a using assisted breathing device .
i am back to work and creating.
i am not on a cpap
i do not eat pharmaceuticals daily
i am not in pain
i have energy for a life worth living thanks to bvt and other modalities. can you say the same with the modalities you have chosen . how long are you gunna give dr j's office ? at one time you considered bvt if your hubby would do the handling?

I don’t know if I have permanent damage - maybe I do.
My left side (upper body) still doesn’t match my right side... maybe if I focussed on weight lifting - it would be better.. not sure.

I have made very good progress with the treatment choices but I can’t say I’m symptom free yet.
Maybe this is permanent damage - and I’m just being naive.
Although I have flares that are related to treatment so am assuming it’s herxing.

Basically down to a few symptoms left.

Only taking abx for 4 days a month .... time will tell.
I only travel to dr J once a year now - unless something changes.

Bees? Not yet - still an option tho
Posted 9/27/2019 8:43 PM (GMT 0)

RainyCloud said...
Girlie I think you should try bees!.... bee venom therapy changed everything for me in regards to Lyme.

It’s on my list... thing is I’m petrified of stinging insects... it goes back to my childhood - when I was 3- 4 years old - one of first memories - my older brother told me to pick up the bee that was on our sliding door. I did what I was told and tried to grab it and was stung.

Yah - and he’s still an a-hole
Posted 9/29/2019 5:44 PM (GMT 0)
i have heard ms people say the alcohol in lido can nullify some properties of the venom .

interesting i was just researching peptide therapy for a client . at first he did good with energy (no muscle gain) but then his immune sx ramped up (increasingly inflammatory response) and he couldn't tolerate bees as much anymore?! it could have been a trial of ldn months ago but he choose to let bees go to do peptides . the derivation from human gastric juices is a little schech but i will research more thanks so much rc. i have only injected the already mix venex with procaine...keep us all posted please
Posted 10/11/2019 2:17 AM (GMT 0)
Hey BVTers. I hope you are doing awesomely! Got a question for those who have been at this for a little while.

Did you notice a big change in your routine bloodwork after being on BVT at around the 6 month mark or so?
Posted 10/11/2019 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
Hey everybody,

I'm hopping on the bandwagon after I've contemplated BVT for a good couple years. I'm a classic oral Abx case failure. LLMD wanted me to do IV Abx. I tried Disulfiram. It shows great promise, but I'm not convinced it will work for me. I had a friend that was a long time Lyme sufferer that used BVT to great success and has been needling me for years to try it. I can say after being apart of the online Lyme communities for several years now that BVT probably has the best anecdotal testimonials. I just want to get my life back. Similar to many of you, I've lost my career, many friends, purpose in life, etc. Every day is a struggle. I just want quality of life back.

My whole life I've had an irrational fear of bees after a few wasps stung me when I was a child. It makes sense in some cosmic/karma way that the way to health might be stinging myself with bees lol. Yes, this wouldn't be my first choice of therapy to get well, but the pain of stinging bees>>>>>>>living with chronic lyme and Bartonella. All day. It's not even a hard choice.

The bees are ordered, They will be here next Wednesday. I have my epi-pen ready and will be performing the test sting. Knock on wood everything goes well and then I'll be beginning my BVT journey.
Posted 10/11/2019 4:41 PM (GMT 0)
Welcome aboard Lymie! Sorry you have suffered so long, but I feel you have made a great choice. I understand your apprehension of being stung. And while it will always sting, you should become accustomed to it shortly after starting.

What I like about BVT is how it doesn't just kill lyme. It's like it resets your chemistry. The many healing factors venom provides is what I believe leads to it's relatively high success rate.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing about your progress.
Posted 10/11/2019 5:54 PM (GMT 0)
“However, IRL around here, it hasn't from who I have networked with.... ”

I’m curious too -

I know bluelyme is one success -

Anyone else on the forum have success? Ie in remission/symptom free?
Posted 10/11/2019 6:11 PM (GMT 0)
There is no statistical evidence to support any chronic Lyme treatment modality that I’m aware of. Everything is anecdotal. Hell, even LLMDs treating with long term abx was based off the continuing infection theory and subsequent positive clinical results vs Science @ Stats.

Most of the BVT Lyme community lives on their two Facebook groups. That’s where you’ll get the best evidence of anecdotal experiences. I’ve been following those groups for some time now. From my personal research BVT has the best anecdotal experiences for those that actually stick out the 2-3 year protocol. I’ve only observed a few people talking about doing the entire protocol and still remaining very sick.

It’s a pretty easy decision in my mind. Once somebody fails oral abx treatment you have two options. Continue down the path with your LLMD trying more and more expensive alternative treatments that anecdotally seem to have so so results or try something inexpensive like BVT that has overwhelmingly positive anecdotal results.

From my understanding the vast majority of people who fail BVT treatment become frustrated with the length of treatment and quit early.
Posted 10/11/2019 6:19 PM (GMT 0)
“ From my understanding the vast majority of people who fail BVT treatment become frustrated with the length of treatment and quit early.“

True - that is often the case with other treatments as well - ie abx / herbal
Posted 10/11/2019 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
“ Most of the BVT Lyme community lives on their two Facebook groups. That’s where you’ll get the best evidence of anecdotal experiences. I’ve been following those groups for some time now.“

But successes would certainly be known outside the bvt Facebook groups.

I hear of success stories here on the forum, as well as from another lyme group (not online) and so far not one bvt except for bluelyme on this forum.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not saying it won’t work - in fact it’s an option I have thought about - and maybe one day I will try it - but so far I haven’t seen/heard of remissions (other than bluelyme) from bvt.
Time will tell...
Posted 10/11/2019 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
I'm on my 14th month of BVT and I can honestly say there are days, that are becoming more and more frequent, where not only do I feel like I'm in remission, but better than I did even before I got sick. My doctors are starting to come to the conclusion that my walking issues are due to spine issues. Might be permanent now. But I have little doubt lyme exacerbated it. Plus I can't remember a time in my life where my blood work has been better.

There is someone else who posted on here about bvt before bluelyme who I believe got to remission under it. It was because of that poster, bluelyme, and the bvt fb group that I decided to give it a go. Best thing I've done. Went from being basically bedridden almost 2 years ago to running a coffee trailer, going to school full time, and working a part time job on campus since being on bvt.

As lymie stated, there is no way to show stats on it. But there are loads of people getting better with it. And there has been a scientific study published with evidence showing that the main component of bv, melittin, is more effective at destroying borellia than the top 3 abx used together. I've backed off on it for the most part as most of the lyme Community seems they don't want to hear any more about it. But this may just be my perception.
Posted 10/11/2019 7:38 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
“ Most of the BVT Lyme community lives on their two Facebook groups. That’s where you’ll get the best evidence of anecdotal experiences. I’ve been following those groups for some time now.“

But successes would certainly be known outside the bvt Facebook groups.

I hear of success stories here on the forum, as well as from another lyme group (not online) and so far not one bvt except for bluelyme on this forum.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not saying it won’t work - in fact it’s an option I have thought about - and maybe one day I will try it - but so far I haven’t seen/heard of remissions (other than bluelyme) from bvt.
Time will tell...

[code]

I understand.

You are more than welcome to join Ellie's fb group and read the success stories. It may actually sway you into the bvt direction. The community is very friendly and will address any concerns you have regarding bvt. Ellie is extremely active. She assured me that bvt was the way to go.

Post Edited (Hoagie) : 10/11/2019 1:41:04 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/12/2019 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
"I understand.

You are more than welcome to join Ellie's fb group and read the success stories. It may actually sway you into the bvt direction. The community is very friendly and will address any concerns you have regarding bvt. Ellie is extremely active. She assured me that bvt was the way to go."


I am petrified of insects - all insects - especially those that sting...so not sure how I'd sting myself.

I don't know if my husband wants that job either...he's experienced my blood-curdling screams when I'm surprised by an insect...flying or otherwise.
Posted 10/12/2019 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
It depends on the insect for me. Had it been spiders that were the cure, i may have passed.

Anyhow, i found a thread from a couple years back from a poster named Revive. Her posts were very instrumental in my seeking out bvt.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3906019&g=3906299#m3906299
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