Questions about disulfiram

Over the past few days I've suddenly been feeling very tired and herxing real bad. It feels like when I took depakote, but I have not taken any recently. However I did recently lose some weight, which leads me to suspect that valproate is stored in fat, and released with weight loss.

I am considering taking disulfiram instead, and wondering if it has the same effect. Has anyone noticed an increase in disulfiram effects when losing weight?

I've also repeatedly had blood tests show low levels of copper and zinc. I suspect that valproate chelates copper and zinc. I've taken supplemental copper and zinc, and it didn't seem to have any effect.

People on the facebook group seem very concerned about copper. How much of a concern is this? I never got any neuropathy from it while taking valproate, but I haven't taken disulfiram yet.

Has anyone who is taking disulfiram had your copper and zinc levels tested?

Quin said...


However I did recently lose some weight, which leads me to suspect that valproate is stored in fat, and released with weight loss. I've suddenly been feeling very tired and herxing real bad. It feels like when I took depakote, but I have not taken any recently. However I did recently lose some weight, which leads me to suspect that valproate is stored in fat, and released with weight loss. Has anyone noticed an increase in disulfiram effects when losing weight?

I mean I think if you're body doesn't detox well enough and you're getting bone crushing fatigue where you're on the couch all day, you can lose your appetite and stop eating, that in itself cause weight loss. How's your appetite?

But like you said, can disulfiram cause weight loss, good question...?

You know there's supposedly evidence showing that just by using standard antibiotics it may promote weight loss, because you may be eradicating certain bacteria in your system that promote fat.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-loss/a19950568/how-antibiotics-affect-your-weight/

womenshealthmag.com said...


Do antibiotics get rid of the bacteria that causes weight gain, and spur weight loss?

Because antibiotics can simultaneously inhibit the growth of some bacteria while promoting the growth of other bacteria, it’s believed antibiotics can be tailored to promote weight loss, Upadhyay says. Still, there are more than 500 different strains of bacteria present in the bowel, and the precise ones that inhibit weight gain need to be better established before they can be harnessed to fight fat. “Weight gain or loss is about fostering the right mix of bacteria in the gut,” he says, which explains why low-dose antibiotics have long been used in the livestock industry to make animals gain weight. (Discover one common cause of weight gain.)

So I suspect just by killing the bad bacteria and promoting the good bacteria in the gut with something like disulfiram, that alone would reduced bloating and maybe help promote healthier digestion of foods, resulting in weight loss.

I had a lot of weird weird weird sensations and symptoms while being on disulfiram, one can only assume how it could drastically change one's body if it's targetting two of the dominant infections of chronic lyme patients such as babesia and borrelia, resulting in a healthier state.

While you may feel super crappy, like Dr. Liegner reported, it wasn't until lyme patient got off the drug disulfiram that they felt super healthy.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 9/27/2019 5:43:06 AM (GMT-6)

Roxybutin said...
I was on a diet, disulfiram and losing weight. the month of taking disulfiram and the destruction of the body reached its highest point - neuropathy, Bartonella became brutal, disulfiram had to be stopped. Perhaps toxins started to come out from the fats and hurt. Now I think that losing weight on disulfiram is not a good idea.

I didn't get neuropathy from valproate. I'm starting to think that maybe valproate is a bit safer in this regard.

Valproate had the same effect on bartonella, it made it flare up but did not kill it. I found that when the bartonella became active, I could kill it with minocycline.

Roxybutin said...
about copper and zinc, you can not worry. In a study, disulfiram has no effect on these metals in the body. Nickel and cadmium can be a problem, especially if you smoke.
Pubmed "trace elements status in alchoholism before and after disulfiram treatment" 1990.
P.s. i started a new course of disulfiram, without taking multivitamins, without a diet - no catabolism of the body.

http://www.annclinlabsci.org/content/20/1/28.full.pdf

Both valproate and diethyldithiocarbamate (disulfiram metabolite) can reversibly bind copper. This is suspected to be part of the antimicrobial action, although valproate is also known to inhibit histone deacetylase and folate metabolism.

There are mixed reports on the effect of valproate on copper in vivo:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1592036
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15621922

The cause of neuropathy with disulfiram is not clear. People have suspected copper, but I suspect there might be something else going on. Valproate seems to be messing with my copper, but I didn't get nerve pain from it.

As compared to valproate, the disulfiram metabolite diethyldithiocarbamate has sulfur in place of oxygen, so perhaps the metal-binding affinity is slightly different.

Charlie55 said...
I mean I think if you're body doesn't detox well enough and you're getting bone crushing fatigue where you're on the couch all day, you can lose your appetite and stop eating, that in itself cause weight loss. How's your appetite?

My appetite varies. I gained a lot of weight due to being sick. Recently I've been feeling better and losing some weight, but I do notice the increased toxicity from the weight loss.

I got major fatigue from valproate. It's not any better than disulfiram in this regard.

Maybe I should just continue with valproate. I was considering disulfiram because people have reported success with it.

Charlie55 said...
I had a lot of weird weird weird sensations and symptoms while being on disulfiram, one can only assume how it could drastically change one's body if it's targetting two of the dominant infections of chronic lyme patients such as babesia and borrelia, resulting in a healthier state.

What kind of weird sensations?

JovaLyme said...
I've never heard of depakote being used for Lyme treatment. That's a mood stabiliser isn't it? That's one of the many psych meds I was on when I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.

Were you taking it specifically for Lyme disease? If so, what effect is it meant to have?

It's been used for other infectious diseases eg toxoplasmosis:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/s0022395615000436

Before I knew that I had Lyme disease, I had taken depakote. I got a big herx from it, and at the time didn't understand what was happening.

i've been on DSF for a month currently at 375mg daily. It hasn't done anything for me except flare up some bart symptoms and by that I mean its either killing it or pissing it off. This is the same effect I've had when taking various abx's for these symptoms so same reaction.

The fatigue seems to be something some people are experiencing using DSF but jury is still out on whether its an exacerbation of existing symptoms due to bug die off or a side effect. At this point it could be either or or both.

Similarly jury is still out on whether DSF affects bart. In my case definitely but that doesn't mean it'll eradicate it completely or just pissing some of them off.

For me long bart focused abx protocols haven't eradicated bart as its quite populated in my blood under microscope still. Will see what happens but for me personally I'll need a few more months and some checkpoint microscopy examination to see if my bart load decreases.

Quin said...

The cause of neuropathy with disulfiram is not clear. People have suspected copper, but I suspect there might be something else going on. Valproate seems to be messing with my copper, but I didn't get nerve pain from it.

Invitro data, but inhibition of ADHL do cytotoxicity for our body.
"Disulfiram neurotoxicity: Decrements in ethanolamine, serine, and inositol glycerophospholipids" 2014. Pubmed.

Jova if you do a FISH or PCR test for babesia that should confirm you have it.

if those red dots are cherry angiomas than that's a bart symptom. also with bart i had about 6 different lab tests done and it never showed up. once i had my blood looked at under a microscope well there it was! it's classified as BLO or Bartonella Like Organism probably because its not a species/variant that the labs can detect but its there for sure and that's where direct visual examination by an expert plays a critical role in identification.

JovaLyme said...
The trouble with living in the UK is that I am shackled by the NHS. If I ask for more thorough blood testing or a PCR I'm likely to be declined. They don't like spending OUR money on treating us. It's all you can do to actually see your own doctor. That's how bad it is now.

I will have to look into private testing, which I can't see being inexpensive at all.

The private labs that specialize in tickborne disease testing are better anyway.
I was negative for the lyme screening test with my healthcare but was positive with the Igenex WB.