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Posted 1/20/2018 4:24 PM (GMT 0)
I received my results on my MRI. My doctor said they are normal, but when I plugged them in the Shoemaker spreadsheet the results are 4/8 for mold, 0/4 lyme and 1/2 for PTSD. Apparently, the areas of the brain impacted by lyme disease are usually the Putamen and Thalamus, which mine are considered normal. I do have markers (either atrophy or hypertrophy) in the Caudate, Pallidum, Hippocampus and Forebrain Parenchyma - which are impacted with mold.

Anyone else have the neuroquant done? If so, what were your results? Do you feel it was accurate?

It really just makes me more confused honestly. I did not have normal responses to antibiotics and my doctors are leaning away from lyme even though I have positive c6 elisa and IND on Igenex, + RMSF IGG. I was told you can look at it from the other side that my body handled the lyme. I do have somewhat positive responses to herbs, although mostly in the circulation area (less numbness).

I am curious though if fungus/candida can cause similar changes in the brain to mold, since they are somewhat related. I did have + gliotoxin in urine. My house (current & past checks out clean) and our summer place does have aspergillus but according to HERTSMI it is not horrible.
Posted 1/20/2018 4:54 PM (GMT 0)
I did. Dont remember what my Dr compared the results to though. Since my C4a cleared up, I have not been in a big hurry to look at the NQ results again. My Dr thought candida also was a factor in my high c4a.

Shoemaker needs to address Candida, how can he be a mold guru while not mentioning Candida? Hard to take him 100% serious till he does this, common sense.

Ko- mind providing a link for the Shoemaker spreadsheet?

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/20/2018 10:06:28 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/20/2018 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
Here's a link to the score card. I would be interested in knowing what your result was. You enter your values in the pale yellow sections.

www.biotoxinhelp.com/cirs-and-the-brain.html
Posted 1/20/2018 5:13 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the link. I'll have to dig up my test data this weekend before its lost. My "info paper pile" needs organizing big time.

(edit- I lost but just found this again) Here is a link to a very similar mold post before the during or before holidays for anyone reading this - it is a great post.

[url]https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3948900[url]

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/20/2018 10:29:29 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/20/2018 5:27 PM (GMT 0)
That was me - same one. Takes all of 2 minutes to plug the data in.

Did you have positive lyme test? I know you've talked about candida before so it will be interesting to see your results.
Posted 1/20/2018 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
yep, I just found it, thanks again!

I never had a pos antibody lyme test per Igenix or basic labs taken years after my initial symptom flair up., But - I had the bulseye years ago with a symptom storm after it.. and a roller-coaster of different symptoms 20-25 years after.

My NQ MRI was at the end / after of my ABX lyme treatment - both just a couple years ago.

My history with all this goes back to the late 80's.- no one did lyme testing back then. No llmds, useless internet then.

Ive had at least 30 known ticks latched before 1990. I might have been re-infected numerous times, who knows. Many marker tests pointed to lyme as well as I-Spot.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/20/2018 12:20:55 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/20/2018 7:03 PM (GMT 0)
k07,

Thanks for updating us. Very interesting what you said about not having normal responses to antibiotics in light of your Neuroquant.

What responses did you have to antibiotics? Which abx?

Did you ever go through the Shoemaker protocol or take Cholestyramine?
Posted 1/20/2018 8:48 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
k07,

Thanks for updating us. Very interesting what you said about not having normal responses to antibiotics in light of your Neuroquant.

What responses did you have to antibiotics? Which abx?

Did you ever go through the Shoemaker protocol or take Cholestyramine?

I never got improvement with antibiotics. Sometimes I took combos that most on here feel are pretty potent and didn't feel better or even worse (doxy/rifampin/bactrim/plaquenil). However, I would feel a bit worse with most other combinations (mostly insomnia, flair in urinary symptoms, some achiness in hands) but it would not subside as a normal herx would. I always wondered if it was candida flaring with antibiotics. The combinations I can remember are:

biaxin/plaq/flagyl (did have some kidney pain)
doxy/ceftin/flagyl
doxy/bactrim
azithromycin/plaquenil
tinidazole
parasite meds: biltricide
doxy/rif/bactrim/plaq
mino/rif/bactrim/plaq
omnicef/malarone
alinia (i think with the above combo)

No response to full dose of byron white A-L or A-Bart. Did Green Dragon Core herbs (JK, CC, Andrographis, Sasparilla) for over 2 years. I thought LDI helped decrease my internal buzzing but when I tried it just recently it did nothing. Currently trying Zhang herbs - Coptis, Circulation, HH along with Biocidin and doing Diflucan.

I have tried welchol with no success. Never tried CSM. Modified citrus pectin helps me sleep so I stick with it. This doc I see now is doing a modified Shoemaker. I am finishing up desmopressin right now for low ADH. I'm taking resolvins to correct MMP-9. He has not mentioned CSM. I think next we will retest MARCoNs and if that comes back clear give VIP a try. I am going to request a script for CSM next month when I see him. I'd like to see if it helps.
Posted 1/20/2018 9:39 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...

WalkingbyFaith said...
k07,

Thanks for updating us. Very interesting what you said about not having normal responses to antibiotics in light of your Neuroquant.

What responses did you have to antibiotics? Which abx?

Did you ever go through the Shoemaker protocol or take Cholestyramine?

I never got improvement with antibiotics. Sometimes I took combos that most on here feel are pretty potent and didn't feel better or even worse (doxy/rifampin/bactrim/plaquenil). However, I would feel a bit worse with most other combinations (mostly insomnia, flair in urinary symptoms, some achiness in hands) but it would not subside as a normal herx would. I always wondered if it was candida flaring with antibiotics. The combinations I can remember are:

biaxin/plaq/flagyl (did have some kidney pain)
doxy/ceftin/flagyl
doxy/bactrim
azithromycin/plaquenil
tinidazole
parasite meds: biltricide
doxy/rif/bactrim/plaq
mino/rif/bactrim/plaq
omnicef/malarone
alinia (i think with the above combo)

No response to full dose of byron white A-L or A-Bart. Did Green Dragon Core herbs (JK, CC, Andrographis, Sasparilla) for over 2 years. I thought LDI helped decrease my internal buzzing but when I tried it just recently it did nothing. Currently trying Zhang herbs - Coptis, Circulation, HH along with Biocidin and doing Diflucan.

I have tried welchol with no success. Never tried CSM. Modified citrus pectin helps me sleep so I stick with it. This doc I see now is doing a modified Shoemaker. I am finishing up desmopressin right now for low ADH. I'm taking resolvins to correct MMP-9. He has not mentioned CSM. I think next we will retest MARCoNs and if that comes back clear give VIP a try. I am going to request a script for CSM next month when I see him. I'd like to see if it helps.

I'm so sorry. I hope and pray you find your answers to wellness. Reading all you've done with no resolution makes me feel like I'm just a whiny butt.
Posted 1/20/2018 10:07 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...

WalkingbyFaith said...
k07,

Thanks for updating us. Very interesting what you said about not having normal responses to antibiotics in light of your Neuroquant.

What responses did you have to antibiotics? Which abx?

Did you ever go through the Shoemaker protocol or take Cholestyramine?

I never got improvement with antibiotics. Sometimes I took combos that most on here feel are pretty potent and didn't feel better or even worse (doxy/rifampin/bactrim/plaquenil). However, I would feel a bit worse with most other combinations (mostly insomnia, flair in urinary symptoms, some achiness in hands) but it would not subside as a normal herx would. I always wondered if it was candida flaring with antibiotics. The combinations I can remember are:

biaxin/plaq/flagyl (did have some kidney pain)
doxy/ceftin/flagyl
doxy/bactrim
azithromycin/plaquenil
tinidazole
parasite meds: biltricide
doxy/rif/bactrim/plaq
mino/rif/bactrim/plaq
omnicef/malarone
alinia (i think with the above combo)

No response to full dose of byron white A-L or A-Bart. Did Green Dragon Core herbs (JK, CC, Andrographis, Sasparilla) for over 2 years. I thought LDI helped decrease my internal buzzing but when I tried it just recently it did nothing. Currently trying Zhang herbs - Coptis, Circulation, HH along with Biocidin and doing Diflucan.

I have tried welchol with no success. Never tried CSM. Modified citrus pectin helps me sleep so I stick with it. This doc I see now is doing a modified Shoemaker. I am finishing up desmopressin right now for low ADH. I'm taking resolvins to correct MMP-9. He has not mentioned CSM. I think next we will retest MARCoNs and if that comes back clear give VIP a try. I am going to request a script for CSM next month when I see him. I'd like to see if it helps.

You're seeing one of the most experienced LLMD's right?
What does he say?


Have you and your LLMD thought about trying Mepron? If it is Babesia holding you back, the malarone might not have been enough of the atovaquone.

(Not questioning your Doc...just trying to trouble-shoot...)

I thought you had improved quite a bit, though with treatment?
Posted 1/21/2018 1:23 AM (GMT 0)
No, improvement was made mostly in the first few months after neuro symptoms started. No treatment, but started supplements and did wahls diet bc I thought for sure it was MS.

I’m sure I’m somewhat better in the last 2 years with LLMD but there was never a clear improvement on abx. Glutathione and such has helped my memory some. As soon as I think something is better it comes back. I haven’t treated with abx since Sept. I actually stopped everything (except supps) for two months and I started getting numb at night again. Literally wake up and can’t feel my side of face or neck. It takes a bit but then it gets icey cold and comes back. Once I start back herbs it goes away. I think it must be JK that helps. Hard to say if that is lyme or the circulation properties of herbs.

I have not spoken to dr h since summer. At that point he said he is leaning more towards chemical sensitivity or mold. I am now seeing his NP JF - who I initially started with. I do like him. If I don’t have an in office visit this spring then I lose my patient status. Probably going to do that. The local guy here would probably let me try mepron.

I just don’t know how much importance to put on these neuroquant results.
Posted 1/21/2018 1:59 AM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...

k07 said...

WalkingbyFaith said...
k07,

Thanks for updating us. Very interesting what you said about not having normal responses to antibiotics in light of your Neuroquant.

What responses did you have to antibiotics? Which abx?

Did you ever go through the Shoemaker protocol or take Cholestyramine?

I never got improvement with antibiotics. Sometimes I took combos that most on here feel are pretty potent and didn't feel better or even worse (doxy/rifampin/bactrim/plaquenil). However, I would feel a bit worse with most other combinations (mostly insomnia, flair in urinary symptoms, some achiness in hands) but it would not subside as a normal herx would. I always wondered if it was candida flaring with antibiotics. The combinations I can remember are:

biaxin/plaq/flagyl (did have some kidney pain)
doxy/ceftin/flagyl
doxy/bactrim
azithromycin/plaquenil
tinidazole
parasite meds: biltricide
doxy/rif/bactrim/plaq
mino/rif/bactrim/plaq
omnicef/malarone
alinia (i think with the above combo)

No response to full dose of byron white A-L or A-Bart. Did Green Dragon Core herbs (JK, CC, Andrographis, Sasparilla) for over 2 years. I thought LDI helped decrease my internal buzzing but when I tried it just recently it did nothing. Currently trying Zhang herbs - Coptis, Circulation, HH along with Biocidin and doing Diflucan.

I have tried welchol with no success. Never tried CSM. Modified citrus pectin helps me sleep so I stick with it. This doc I see now is doing a modified Shoemaker. I am finishing up desmopressin right now for low ADH. I'm taking resolvins to correct MMP-9. He has not mentioned CSM. I think next we will retest MARCoNs and if that comes back clear give VIP a try. I am going to request a script for CSM next month when I see him. I'd like to see if it helps.

I'm so sorry. I hope and pray you find your answers to wellness. Reading all you've done with no resolution makes me feel like I'm just a whiny butt.

Not at all! We all just want to be better.
Posted 4/30/2018 3:17 AM (GMT 0)
I'm getting a Neuroquant MRI tomorrow.

When I get the results, where do I send it to get the results reviewed for mold vs lyme analysis?
Posted 4/30/2018 10:36 PM (GMT 0)
I don't have LD or mold, but this thread caught my eye because I will soon be having an MRI with Neuroquant. Apparently the Neuroquant is a tool that has many applications. I'm posting because I came across an interesting short article that links mold to structural changes in the brain:

" "Based on preliminary results; one of the "fathers of NQ" has shown a unique fingerprint of changes in white matter volume as well as injury to a gray matter structure, the caudate nucleus. " "

Here is a link to the article:

https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/dr.-shoemaker-essays/neuroquant-links-mold-illness-to-structural-change-in-brain-1

Please forgive me if my post is redundant to something that has already been posted! I wonder if the Neuroquant has linked structural changes in the brain to Borrelia or any other pro-inflammatory pathogen?


Don

Post Edited (Heathersdad) : 4/30/2018 4:49:07 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2018 11:49 PM (GMT 0)
Don,

Hi! Nice to see you on the forum. Yes, there is a fingerprint for Lyme as well as mold. Here's an article on the Lyme. Hard to find information in an easily accessible format. Shoemaker is brilliant, but he rambles and talks in riddles.

www.survivingmold.com/community/as-i-see-it-lyme-disease-and-cirs

"Show me a Lyme patient with a diagnosis of depression, anxiety, impairment of executive inhibition, intrusive thoughts, resting tremor, atypical seizure disorder (and more): based on today’s data, I’ll show you a Lyme fingerprint on NeuroQuant. As with any “new” procedure, we need more data but more than this reality, we need docs paying attention to inflammatory changes in CNS Lyme.

Similarly, in mold CIRS patients we can show its own unique NeuroQuant abnormalities, but the isolated atrophy of putamen seen in Lyme is in the caudate instead in mold people. The beauty of these findings is that we can now follow successful anti-inflammatory therapy with neuropeptides that will restore the inter-connections of Purkinje fibers, correcting isolated nuclear atrophy in grey matter of the CNS."
Posted 5/1/2018 12:12 AM (GMT 0)
There was a score card that you could fill in your values but I'm not seeing it anymore. My local doctor had something different he used.

I'm supposed to start VIP spray this week. Waiting to see some of my labs first. I have the spray here but I'm dragging my feet. Expensive stuff - $200.

Good luck on your MRI's. Look forward to seeing your results!
Posted Today 3:32 AM (GMT 0)
I know this is an old post but does anyone know if you can get a Neuroquant MRI w/out contrast?
Posted Today 2:20 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, no contrast needed for neuroquant.
Posted Today 4:03 PM (GMT 0)
neuroquant has specific instuctions for the MRI tech
Posted Today 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
Surviving Mold now has an analysis for mold and Lyme based on Neuroquant results. Very affordable now.

https://www.survivingmold.com/store1/online-neuroquant-test

Make sure you get a disc of your MRI and the full reports for age related atrophy and general morphography. The reports have the data you will need to input for the analysis.
Posted 1/6/2021 6:11 AM (GMT 0)
HI Ko7,
I read your story with interest. Any updates on your mold/chemical sensitivity pursuit of treatment, vs the Lyme and coinfections path? You appear to be under the care of the best office in the country, so curious if you are detoxing and binding mold now with results.

I have been chasing bartonella and Lyme/myco/virus for years, with some improvement but not enough. My response to abx is like yours, I do also get some results with herbs as long as I continue to take them. I have a NeuroQuant for "mold", 2 mold genes, and a CIRS diagnosis. I was skeptical as I don't recall a ton of mold exposure in my life or dwellings. We did the mold testing and remediated a small patch we found years ago. Nothing is adding up??

I have periodically done sauna, binders, EDTA, etc but didn't see improvement there either.

I do have serious reactions to diflucan though.

Thanks for any update!
Posted 1/6/2021 2:09 PM (GMT 0)
SuperLuke,

The fact that you have strong reactions to diflucan seems significant. Could be internal mold or yeast. Do you have gut issues or sinus issues?

Mold and yeast produce toxins, so if you have colonization anywhere inside your body, you can have ongoing exposure to toxins produced internally, which creates ongoing inflammation and symptoms. For the longest time, I felt like I had a toxin producing factory in my gut. Probably still do. I still take Fluconazole 3 days a week and Nystatin daily.
Posted 1/6/2021 2:21 PM (GMT 0)
SuperLuke,

Did you do a urine mycotoxin test or an OAT test at any point?
Posted 1/12/2021 7:36 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, an OAT test showing no yeast or yeast metabolites. Thus we dropped the mold line of inquiry.

Diflucan does hit borrelia/Lyme and possibly bart to some extent. Hmm.
Posted 7/3/2022 8:38 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...
Here's a link to the score card. I would be interested in knowing what your result was. You enter your values in the pale yellow sections.

http://www.biotoxinhelp.com/cirs-and-the-brain.html


I know this posted a long time ago but I am hoping your still around? I am in need of the link, this does not work?
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