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Western Blot vs. ArminLabs conflict!

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Posted 1/15/2020 8:51 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

So positive Western Blot bands were 18, 41 and 93, but ArminLabs result was negative! Has anyone seen that happen?? What the heck??
Posted 1/16/2020 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
Are you currently treating?


These tests aren’t accurate - lots of false negatives.

Band 93 is lyme specific
Band 41 is the flagella of a spirochete. If you have symptoms consistent with LD, that test will back up a clinical diagnosis.

Were both these tests done recently?
Posted 1/16/2020 2:23 AM (GMT 0)
This concerns my 18 year old daughter.
Western Blot in Feb 2019. Didn’t act on it due to ignorance. ArminLabs December 2019.
As far as symptoms, still feeling so uncertain about things. Left hip joint pain started end of 2017. Joint is now destroyed and doc is recommending hip replacement. For an 18 year old sad

No other major LD symptoms.

Was able to get a couple months of ceftin and tinidazole until LLMD appointment next month.
Posted 1/16/2020 7:52 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, I believe that is, unfortunately, very common.
Last month I had western blot tested at 3 different labs … all from the same blood draw. 3 different results.

Post Edited (mareish) : 1/16/2020 1:23:03 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/16/2020 8:13 PM (GMT 0)
The test results are often interpreted by the human eye. Some labs use a computer to read the blot paper so your at least getting a consistent result I know MDL labs does. Some labs send a copy of the Western Blot you could be one point under the threshold and they just report negative. Some labs let the samples sit too long. I know my LLMD once told me the lab I originally tested at let there samples sit way to long because they ran the ELISA first. By the time they did the Western Blot it was rarely positive because the sample would be to sticky. I went from one band positive to 8 bands in two weeks.
Posted 1/16/2020 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
mareish--What? Wow, three different results from the same blood draw. Doesn't yield much confidence in the testing. But I guess that's the point...that you can't really rely on the tests.

skinny--That's interesting. Makes me wonder how close our results were to the cut offs of other bands.
Posted 1/16/2020 9:46 PM (GMT 0)
The physician I saw routinely sends to 3 different labs because of the great variation in results.
Posted 1/16/2020 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
Have experienced similar, but not exact.

about 5 months ago, Labcorp western blot showed postive for bands 23, 41 and, I think, 58. about the same time, my LLMD had blood sent to Armin. Results did not come back for weeks and weeks. He finally called there and within a week results showed all negative for Lyme and co-infections. I still wonder if the tests had been lost so just simplest results were sent.

It seems, if anything, it would be the opposite - negative Labcorp and positive Armin.
Posted 1/17/2020 2:23 PM (GMT 0)
Well the tests are mostly faulty, but I recently looked at my Western Blot from IGeneX and noticed this again. I had taken the 31 PCR test which was unnecessary :/ .

Since I had already a 31+ (Lyme Specific) and 58+ positive, I think 58 is also (european strain?)

Test information was confusing, it said ONLY if 31 is positive with no other bands, to do the epitope test, which I wasted money on...

I think my blood sample had gotten old, and/or there was no DNA in the blood anyway (with biofilms, cysts, spirochetes, L-forms likely in my joints, brain, eyeballs, white matter by now).

By the way these tests were both with IGeneX. I haven't had any tests from ArminLabs, MDLabs nor Galaxy yet so I don't know much about, just telling my experience with tests so far.

But I guess, testing being still messed up as it is, if you have a lyme-specific band and clinical symptoms that is enough for LLMD/LLND to diagnose and treat anyway. Many MDs will refuse. I had to bring extra papers about Horowitz, lyme bingo, all the specific bands and show my Igenex (this was IDSA adoctor) but they still cautioned against ABX and I didn't get a full course and now those ABX have expired :/
Posted 1/17/2020 4:40 PM (GMT 0)

borrelioburgdorferii said...
Well the tests are mostly faulty, but I recently looked at my Western Blot from IGeneX and noticed this again. I had taken the 31 PCR test which was unnecessary :/ .
Since I had already a 31+ (Lyme Specific) and 58+ positive, I think 58 is also (european strain?)
Test information was confusing, it said ONLY if 31 is positive with no other bands, to do the epitope test, which I wasted money on...
I think my blood sample had gotten old, and/or there was no DNA in the blood anyway (with biofilms, cysts, spirochetes, L-forms likely in my joints, brain, eyeballs, white matter by now).
By the way these tests were both with IGeneX. I haven't had any tests from ArminLabs, MDLabs nor Galaxy yet so I don't know much about, just telling my experience with tests so far.
But I guess, testing being still messed up as it is, if you have a lyme-specific band and clinical symptoms that is enough for LLMD/LLND to diagnose and treat anyway. Many MDs will refuse. I had to bring extra papers about Horowitz, lyme bingo, all the specific bands and show my Igenex (this was IDSA adoctor) but they still cautioned against ABX and I didn't get a full course and now those ABX have expired :/


The epitope test is done on band 31 if you don’t have other lyme specific bands for it to be a positive result.
Band 58 isn’t lyme specific
So you paid the extra $100 to have it done?
From Igenex :
“The Lyme IgG or IgM 31 kDA Epitope test is a qualitative immunoblot assay that determines whether the 31kDA band present on a Lyme IgG or IgM western blot is due to B. burgdorferi specific antibody or not. B. burgdorferi specific epitope 31kDa antigen is denatured and separated by SDS polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis, blotted onto nitrocellulose membranes and cut into strips for the use of Lyme 31 kDA Epitope Test. It is known that Western blots, especially IgM, can give false positive results with some viruses. This test would be very useful to rule out false positives when the 31kDa band is present on the Western blots.”


It’s not a pcr test.
Posted 1/17/2020 9:15 PM (GMT 0)
Yes Girlie you're right, (not a PCR) still confused about that, but my sample was re-used from the Western blot and had been sitting awhile. I don't know the technicalities of the tests PCR, etc...

But I am also of the cohort of people that had a EM rash and I remember it, and from a tick-y area...with so many classic Lyme n co symptoms still to this day. I'm sure an LLMD/LLND would treat me properly in a heartbeat, if I could only afford one :/

I think it's safe to say the tests are still shoddy, but I haven't had the luxury of the full menu offering of tests available yet (got no money for that), just know I Herx'd from herbs in a significant way as well as antibiotics for as long I could stand to take them.
Posted 1/17/2020 10:22 PM (GMT 0)
At this point, I don't know even with all the money in the world if results could be trusted or reliable from anywhere. The conflicting results mentioned on this thread tell a story, as does getting back positive Labcorp and negative Armin tests that were somehow found weeks later.

Then symptoms confused or questionable to autoimmune muddle things. It just seems to be a money game at this point, as much as I hate to think like that. The lack of cohesiveness in test results is the evidence.
Posted 1/18/2020 1:28 PM (GMT 0)
The test is my opinion is only meant for testing exposure. It does a fine job of that. Very few people will have a empty western blot if they have been exposed to lyme. The testing company may report negative though even though the blot clearly shows activity. But doctors want a definitive test and that it is not.
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