Disulfiram + Dopamine: Information you should know.

What? Disulfiram can increase brain levels of dopamine through the inhibition of dopamine-betahydroxylase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dopamine_beta-hydroxylase

So? I have personal (bad) experiences with this and want to raise awareness because it is an important thing to know before starting Disulfiram.

Why? In the worst case scenario, it can cause psychosis. In milder cases, it can cause several mental effects that people should be aware about. Not all of them are unpleasant, but it is important to know what is going on in your mind.

------------------------------------------------------

How does it work? Dopamine beta-hydroxylase (DβH) is a synaptic vesicular enzyme that converts dopamine into Norepinephrine. When Dopamine beta-hydroxylase is inhibited (what Disulfiram does), the dopamine in your brain does not (or to a lesser extend) get converted to Norepinephrine. This causes increased levels of Dopamine in the brain when people take Disulfiram. In the worst case scenarios, this can lead to psychosis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dopamine_beta-hydroxylase

A real-life case study: In this case study a 32-year-old male experienced psychosis. Please read the study thoroughly. I am convinced that some of the early reports of Lyme patients experiencing psychosis on Disulfiram was actually caused through excess dopamine in the brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5290718/

Disulfiram + Cocaine and what we can learn from it: Cocaine primarily works on dopamine. When disulfiram is taken together with cocaine, the same thing happens: Dopamine beta-hydroxylase is inhibited, and the user will experience a very high level of dopamine in the brain.

Quote: "When combined with cocaine, the suppression of norepinephrine production combines with a hyper-stimulation (which is related to the drug’s impact on dopamine), which is extremely unpleasant for the user."
This report confirms our other findings, that disulfiram can cause high levels of dopamine through the mechanism we described earlier; it results in a very unpleasant feeling and possible psychosis.
https://www.drugaddictiontreatment.com/types-of-addiction/cocaine-types-of-addiction/disulfiram-for-cocaine-abuse/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00213-011-2447-5

------------------------------------------------------

Why it could matter to you: If you are taking other medications, or even just disulfiram by itself. And you feel an increase in focus (or even tunnel focus), this is not to be mistaken by disulfiram already killing the spirochetes. Don't get me wrong, disulfiram definitely kills Lyme, but it's important to differentiate between feeling better initially due to the increase in dopamine and feeling better later on in the treatment due to the killing effect on the spirochetes.
Another reason it matter is from my own personal experience. I am on Adderall, which works (among other ways) by increasing dopamine in the brain. I experienced very unpleasant effects from combining these two meds and I am pretty sure I had a mild psychosis at one point. So please keep this in mind if you are going to be combining the two medications.

-----------------------------------------------

Further reading sources:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2386143/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00213-011-2447-5
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/disulfiram
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2861803/

----------------------------

I hope this post helps educate people on the effects of disulfiram on dopamine.

Take care,
God Bless,
Keep praying,
RainyCloud

I had this problem with disulfiram. I would describe it as a manic-depressive effect, along with disrupted sleep and weird dreams.

RainyCloud - If you couldn't tolerate disulfiram, what are you taking now?

Astro,

check out my COMT profile

https://ibb.co/dj2xdvj

Crazy. Anything that you did to help yours? Luckily I'm -/- for COMT V158M, which is the one that seems to affect people the most.

Dopamine is the wakefulness neurotransmitter, no wonder it causes insomnia. It also upregulates glutamate, wish is a excititatory neurotransmitter. I am gratefull that i didnt try it, it messes with the chemical balance in your brain really bad.

Thank you dcd2103

That's very helpful. Thanks RainyCloud.

I haven't been following the Disulfiram research closely. I wrote it off early on as just "one more lyme cure". But I recently visited my LLMD last month and she was taking this drug very seriously. She gave me a prescription for it, which hasn't come in yet. Apparently supplies are very low. But I will try it once it comes in.

Wow interesting!

Not to come back to COMT, but comt is responsible for removing catecholamines. Both dopamine and caffeine are catecholamines. Disulfiram may inhibit the comt pathway. Those w COMT issues are probably more at risk

Thank you very much dcd2103, I always really appreciate your comments.

March 7, 2020 | Research Notes

Due to increasing Lyme fatigue my research is slowing down a lot, please accept my apologies. So I'm just going to leave some notes here that hopefully I can expand on in the following days. Or maybe someone is interested to look into it themselves?

---------Note 1---------

I found this interesting because it mentions postural hypotension, which is part of what I experience when I mentioned that I'm "feeling spaced out":

Disulfiram inhibits the enzyme beta hydroxylase in the brain, which turns dopamine into norepinephrine with the aid of Vitamin C. A deficiency of this enzyme causes postural hypotension and peripheral neuropathy and may be responsible for most toxic neuro side effects that disulfiram causes.
https://www.karenvrchota.com/healthnews/2019/9/25/disulfiram-for-lyme-disease

Also, the Vitamin C part, I had already mentioned that in my original post. But for some reason it caught my eye again in this context. What if supplementing Vitamin C will aid the enzyme conversation?,,,, Something I will try tomorrow.

When returning to the same article I found this: Feeling weird Lyme patients report feeling weird on disulfiram. It could be due to increased dopamine in the brain. Vitamin C helps with breakdown of dopamine. Some people report Boardroom VitC 1-3 TBS 1-3 times daily is really helpful.

Not exactly the mechanism I was theorizing (I'm personally thinking it would allow dopamine to be converted as oppose to it being lowered), but regardless, it confirms Vitamin C might help.

---------Note 2---------

This is for people on Adderall and Disulfiram like myself.

I did an experiment today not just to help myself, but to help other people also in the same position.

My lyme fatigue is so severe that I can't function without Adderall.

Some people might wonder why I keep taking it, and that's why. I literally can't get out of bed and go to work without Adderall. So this is a huge problem for me.

First I wanted to confirm that it was indeed the Adderall causing my symptoms and not the caffeine.

So I took adderall and disulfiram, and low and behold, it happened again.

So I feel like since this keeps happening, I have a clear picture now that it is indeed the Adderall + Disulfiram combination.

I had to go home from work after this and fell asleep. It sucked.

Since my day was already ruined, I decided to use it to run a second expirement.

What if I spaced out the timing between Adderall + Disulfiram?

So I took adderall and 2 hours later I took a half dosage of Adderall.

This also failed. Same symptoms and had to go back to sleep.

Then I did my third expirement.

What if I wait 8 hours between Disulfiram and Adderall dosing?

Why 8 hours? If this worked that means I would be able to take Disulfiram before going to bed and wake up and take the adderall.

Jackpot!: This worked.

I still need to test this theory a few times, but so far it's looking good.

---------Note 3---------

I forgot my third note, something about caffeine and disulfiram. I'm leaving this note here in case I remember tomorrow.

Take care friends,
Stay strong!
Keep praying!

Very interesting post Rainy. Not even on Disulfiram and I found it interesting, esp the stuff on beta hydroxylase

I just came across this very informative post by someone in the facebook group. I believe the poster is a pharmacist, and she wrote this in a thread where the op was on his/her way to the ER with mental issues after stopping DSF cold turkey...

"....The development of new symptoms after dsf discontinuation is based on the same issues seen in the sudden discontinuation of the SSRI’s/SNRI’s. It takes weeks or sometimes months to come off these drugs. They provide a chemically-induced condition where Serotonin (SSRI’s) or serotonin/norepinephrine (SNRI’s) are not able to be taken back up into storage in the neuron that just released them. This causes a more continuous enervation of the next neuron. If there is enough stimulation coming from the continuous stimulation by he neurotransmitter, the nerve impulse will go through and this will cause an elevation in mood. (Clinical depression is the result of the neurons involved—just not getting enough of heir particular ‘gas.’) The effects of mood elevators are actually caused by our own naturally-produced chemicals. When here is clinical depression, they are just not being manufactured in sufficient quantities.
When any outside chemical that affects neurotransmitter production, storage, release or acceptance...when that chemical is taken in sufficient quantity AND long enough, the neurons will adapt in heir amount of manufacturing , release and re-uptake of the neurotransmitter.
The same thing goes, for when the chemical is withdrawn. You will have a period of adaptation. The neurons must change their production and release of the neurotransmitters that the former chemical affected. If the outside drug dose was high enough and long enough, sudden withdrawal will give no warning and the neurons must scramble to make the necessary changes...And in many cases, they are not so famous for being so quick on this.)
This problem is seen in going off certain chemicals, including drugs of addiction, mood elevators, even a little bit with antipsychotic medications and anti manic medications. People may feel really good right afterwards, but the brain is not so quickly forgiving, in the long run. It does not like change.
This is why people,with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia stop taking their meds, which oftentimes have side effects. They feel great for awhile, but it doesn’t last. It is also the reason it takes awhile to become addicted, and it’s one reason why takes awhile to go though withdrawal and return to a normal physiological state.
Disulfiram definitely increases dopamine (too much will mess up thoughts) and at least, temporarily reduce dopamine’s conversion to norepinephrine (is stimulating and is also involved with keeping the mood up.)
In the case of disulfiram, I don’t think anyone knows if the neurons re-adjust their productions of dopamine and norepinephrine to these effects in anybody, or only in some people. This is possible. Some people may stop making so much dopamine and be fine, while others just keep making it until they get to much and start getting psychotic symptoms—who knows.
What I would expect is that the norepinephrine levels will likely fall in most people. This would partly, if not completely explain the reports of feeling tired/sleepy, depression, even sexual problems people have.
The many neurotransmitters are engaged in interplay with each other, so it’s difficult to identify all the causes of reactions. If you decrease dopamine, you can get a relative increase in acetyl choline—and the person will start getting Parkinson’s symptoms, even though they don’t have Parkinson’s disease. (Just as dsf can cause psychotic symptoms, even though they don’t have a mental illness. )
Taking away dsf suddenly in some people may be too abrupt, just because the brain needs time to ‘get the message’ it’s not getting that outside interference anymore and make its necessary readjustments.
Some people may be do just fine with stopping dsf suddenly. Others, from what we are hearing AND as long as they are not getting psychotic symptoms, probably would do a lot better if they titrate the dose down at around the same rate they went up in dose.
These reports of depression emerging after sudden discontinuation is surprising because there’s no warning from the manufacturers, but it is not surprising, knowing what this drug does. Also, since it is so sedating in so many people, having sleep difficulties after discontinuation is kind of a no-brainer.
Seems like ‘low and slow’ is the safer way, whether going up, or down. We learn as we go."