Ordering an ermi?

https://www.mycometrics.com/

A hertsmi test is a little more affordable and just checks for the major toxic strains. Cloths are good if you don’t have carpet. Vacuum attachment if you have a lot of carpet where you want to test.

These are better than air samples because air samples are basically a picture of what’s in the air at that specific moment. Testing carpet or a couple weeks of dust on a hard surface will show what all has been around.

I used the carpet one and tested my bedroom and living room 50/50 in the attachment. Depends how big your living space is as far as how many to use.

Symptoms are different for most people. Strictly mold is typically more consistent throughout the day but some people also feel worse depending on environment. Some people get super sensitive and it sounds like a horror story.

Checkout Neil Nathan’s book “toxic”. Covers the basics around mold, bartonella, Lyme and babesia - as well as a lot more technical talk.

I used the ERMI dust cloths from Mycometrics. If you’re testing a home that you plan to stay in, I recommend the ERMI over the HERTSMI-2 if you can afford it. I believe it’s $290. It will give you much more information.

I have done about 6 ERMI’s and have learned a lot about analyzing the results. Feel free to post results here. Will be glad to help.

Here’s how to calculate your HERTSMI-2 score yourself from your ERMI results. https://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/hertsmi-2

Mycometrics is good. You can call and talk to them, too, if you have questions about the results. There are other labs, but this is the one Shoemaker (mold guru) talks about and the one my CIRS doctor told me to use.

If you have a basement or multiple levels, it is not recommended to collect dust from multiple levels on the same collection cloth, as the results will be skewed and you won’t know how to interpret the data. Instead, they recommend doing separate samples for each floor or separate basement sample. Of course, that doubles the cost. Also, do not use the collection cloth on visible mold growth, as this can also skew the results.

If you have known leaks or flooding (past or present) or visible mold, you may want to consider your options before paying for an ERMI.

BTW, the Mycometrics test kit comes with very clear written instructions for collecting the samples. Just take the time to read and follow them. Ask any clarifying questions you need to ask. It’s really pretty simple, but I think everyone gets nervous the first time because they’re afraid they won’t do it right.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 5/16/2020 6:00:44 PM (GMT-6)

Lightlife said...
Are the results user friendly and truly indicative of a problem?
In other words did you find that the results were consistent with urine tests, symptoms, and then treatments.??

- User friendly - you will need help interpreting
- Truly indicative of a problem - it’s a pretty valuable tool
- ERMI results consistent with urine tests, symptoms - they have been for me
- Treatment success depends on the individual - avoiding mold is the primary treatment; binders and detoxing are secondary. The sensitivity of the individual has a significant effect on the speed and effectiveness of treatment.

Lightlife said...
I will most likely want to move if this house is found with high levels. If there's a problem here it is probably throughout. So does that mean maybe the hermensi is enough? My urine test was for ochratoxin so I'm kind of looking for a match so as not to confuse matters. But I guess that may or may not happen...

- If you think you will move and it’s a rental, then the HERTSMI-2 would be cheaper

Lightlife said...
I live in the woods in a rental cabin that is covers in pine needles and moss. It may be a breeding g ground.,

- Sounds quite possible. Sounds a lot like where I came from.

Lightlife said...
Is the mold that grows on aging lemons a toxic mold? Are all molds?

.
- Yes. The bluish mold on lemons is a penicillium. I have horrible reactions to mold on citrus and bread - like raging lunatic, intense body pain reactions.
- All molds are not toxic, but many are allergenic even if not toxic. Mold growing in a building is a health hazard and a detriment to the building structure whether toxic or not.

Lightlife said...
I have a lot of carpet so that may be a good idea. Bedroom and living room together in one test vs two separate

- The dust cloth is simpler, IMO. I have never used the vacuum method. The paper instructions tell you where to take the dust samples and where not to.
- I have only tested one story houses and took samples from each room, all on one collection cloth, to get an idea of the state of the whole house. I avoided taking samples directly from anything that appeared to be mold.

Lightlife said...
I think i see a bit of water damaged wood with possible mold in a corner under sink . Is this really enough to cause problems?

- Absolutely. Exposure to biotoxins found in water damaged buildings is the primary cause of CIRS.

Lightlife said...
Too many questions. I sort of blew the mold off before but before I invest and ingest ABX I'd like to really consider this.

- Wise decision. I would highly recommend getting the HLA-DR genetic testing done, if you haven’t already. It will tell you if you have a genetic predisposition to illness from toxins related to mold, Lyme, multiple biotoxins, and some other things. Can help guide you in your approach to mold.

Information about CIRS testing - https://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/lab-tests

How to decipher your HLA-DR test results - http://biotoxinjourney.com/deciphering-hla-dr-labs/

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 5/16/2020 8:42:53 PM (GMT-6)

Having carpets is one of the worst things for mold because it traps the spores and they can keep replicating there. If it's a mold issue then it won't be solved if you are living in a place with wall to wall carpeting. Maybe see if you can get rid of the carpet in the bathroom from the owner. That doesn't sound healthy.

Don't forget to do an outside sample too as a reference.

If you can't remediate, then moving should be considered if at all possible. I'm sure that sounds terribly daunting. With wall-to-wall carpeting, including in the bathroom, I'm not sure there's any need to test. You pretty much definitely have unhealthy amounts of mycotoxins in your environment.

Ochratoxin A at 15 is elevated but not crazy high. Most folks with high ochratoxin A that I have heard about have higher numbers (mine was 29, another forum member's was over 200!). Ochratoxin A comes from food (like grains and peanuts) but usually not enough to make the test come out that high unless you ate like a whole jar of peanut butter right before the test sample. The molds in a house that make ochratoxin A are mostly in the Aspergillus and Pennicillium families, if I recall correctly.

To clarify: Molds make mycotoxins. ERMI and HERTSMI tests look for molds (in dust, which should include the oldest dust, too). The urine tests look for mycotoxins. So a dust sample will tell you which molds are in a space, but not which mycotoxins you have in your body. To answer your question, yes, a HERTSMI will tell you if you have Aspergillus or Pennicillium molds in your space (the ones that make ochratoxin A).

In my case, I lived in a house with a terrible ERMI score, moldier than 85% of houses! But my urine sample didn't contain any of the mycotoxins produced by the molds in my house. I only had high ochratoxin A, but with no As-Pen mold in the house I'd lived in for ten years. I still mitigated the mold situation in that house until I was able to move, since exposure to mycotoxins isn't great for us even when we are processing them fine or not noticeably reacting to them. Completely healthy people still get kidney damage from sustained exposure to ochratoxin A, after all. In conclusion, my ochratoxin A load must have come from past exposure, and in some ways it might be good that my body now is able to process out those mycotoxins, even if it means I am reacting to them as they work their way out.

I know not everyone has the headspace for reading medical books right now, but pick up Neil Nathan's Toxic if you have not read it yet. For me it was a major light in the dark, and genuinely a page-turner. I also can summarize a bit by email if you want. He sees ONLY the complex cases of Lyme and environmental illness, and he talks at length about mold and Bartonella.

Mycometrics is where I ordered my ERMI from, at the suggestion of my LLMD, who is very into mold, friends with Neil Nathan, etc.

I don't mean for this post to be a downer. You are doing so much mental work lately, Lightlife. You are making progress, even if it doesn't feel like it. Sending you good vibes!

Thanks you guys for your help. I can't say Thankyou enough. Thanks for your kindness and time.

I have the ermi here. Will test some fresh dust and some older dust I guess.

I talked to someone from mycometrics on phone. I was told the hertsmi will only check for one or possibly none of the molds that produce ochratoxin A . ( I want to gove them a call to confirm) She said there are a lot of molds that produce that particular toxin but their lab only tests for two of them. I could order those two separately or an ermi would include both. I opted for the ermi.

Also she said by end of year they are going to be offering a lab test for more ochratoxin producing molds...

I will most likely take a break from this house in a couple weeks, as I usually go to another state for summer. I will be looking for another place to live but with covid and my kids in school/ homeschool and a separation and illness the situation is extremely difficult.
At any rate I'm trying to figure it out.
I will probably do an ermi on my temp living space to gague my treatment next few months...

I will begin the charcoal and glutathione and anything else you all reccomend. I was thinking of trying the cholorestrime if I feel I'm in a good enviro, it seems I'm having a response to the abart I'll post on that in other thread but I will want to try to treat both things.

Here's a question:

When packing things to leave in this enviro I'm inclined to want to wipe some of my kids toys down and kitchen supplies etc, and pack them away in plastic bins so that no mold grows on them when I leave this house empty. And who knows when I will be back. So for storage and possibly for moving is there a reccomended thing that I can wipe down non- pourus items with. I.e. Vinigar?

I will wash as much clothes / blankets as I can and pack them in plastic bins.

Some years we see some kind of mold in a couple places upon return but last year didn't as we did good with humidity when we were gone. Two years ago all my neighbors had visible mold as it was extremely wet ... I still do wonder if all my neighbors would show ochratoxin A and if it really is an issue. I'm still coming working on being convinced that's the big issue. I guess the ermi will be useful in that regard. I am also kind of worried I won't get the best/ right sample and am throwing money around.

Thanks for the info and all your help WBF.

I'm about to swipe the dust. Well feRing up.

I'm wondering, is more dust better? Should I try to saturate the cloth until it's completely covered... there's this one spot that I could blacken the cloth,

Does more dust yield a higher score?

I'm trying to fhink of the areas I want to get so I have a good all around sample of my small home. Near bed, and the rest ...

Should I take a bit from everywhere ? Not basement or attic I guess but everywhere I spend time??
Any tips??