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How to get started with BVT

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Posted 8/3/2020 2:43 PM (GMT 0)
So, I got stung by a hornet yesterday and woke up this morning feeling quite fluish BUT, my brain was a little clearer. I felt a bit more and dereliction was slightly thinner. I haven't changed anything recently so I have to believe this is from the sting. So now I'm interested. How does one get into BVT? How do you know how often to do it? Are there any other good immune modulating therapies out there like that? I have tried so many modulating herbs and they all failed. Curious
Posted 8/3/2020 7:03 PM (GMT 0)
there is an injectable venom but doesn't quite have the the same constituents ...neither does wasp venom its a bit different than honey bee venom. there is an extensive thread here i made and groups on fb following ellie lobels protocol.:.
Posted 8/3/2020 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
Here’s the BVT thread

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3849732#gsc.tab=0
Posted 8/4/2020 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. Is ellie lobel the pioneer of this?
Posted 8/4/2020 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
no ellie may have tried to box it up for lyme and standardize it but the real pioneers were decades before see charles mraz, pat wagner and dr brad weeks founded the apitherapy society....
Posted 8/4/2020 5:54 PM (GMT 0)
If you don't have bees where does someone get the injectable venom? I would love to try a few and see if it will elicit a response
Posted 8/4/2020 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
Look up "Bee Venon for Lyme Disease" and "Healing Lyme with Bee Venom" on Facebook. There is a ton of information there. Sometimes the environment there is a little dogmatic for me, but you can't argue with some of the testimonials. As far as anecdotes go BVT might be the best I've seen. Personally, I know a guy who did it with great success. 100% back to normal. Unfortunately in the years after BVT he fell back a bit, but not sure if it's an active infection or other residual damage.

I actually just received my bees and will be starting soon. You'll need an epi-pen before you start.
Posted 8/4/2020 9:01 PM (GMT 0)
I actually have an epi-pen but hope I wouldn't need it since I had no reaction to the hornet sting. I searched, though, and can't find anywhere where you can get injections. Does that not exist?
Posted 8/4/2020 9:16 PM (GMT 0)
It's good you have an epi. I'm not an expert, but from my understanding you can go into anaphlyaxis at any time. It's less likely if you keep a consistent sting schedule, but the risk is always there. So always keep one by you just in case when stinging.

I think injections do exist. I'm not sure where to get them. According to those who have used BVT for Lyme injections aren't nearly as effective as live bees. I'm not exactly sure why, but if you search these FB groups I'm almost positive there is discussion about it.
Posted 8/5/2020 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
venex (injectable venom brand name) is usually only sold to practioneers . apitronic services has a few hoops but your doc can order it directly. it was two and change before he raised prices not including needles . so live bees are definitely more cost effective.
Posted 8/5/2020 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
I made an injectable bee venom from powdered bee venom myself, it was not as effective as live bees.

I would recommend live bees.
Posted 8/6/2020 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
It makes sense that live vees would be more effective, considering all the active constituents.

Bummer, I thought maybe there would be injections available. Might have to find another hornet who will sting me and see if it happens again
Posted 8/6/2020 6:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Aerose91 do you want to do honey bee venom or hornet / wasp venom therapy?
They would probably all work in one way or another but some of them might be more painful than others and come with different side effects. I've read that wasp venom is being used in a new therapy against breast cancer.
According to the website below only the honey bee venom contains the melittin peptide, but they all seem to have some other peptides / enzymes / proteins in common.

https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/08/28/insectvenoms/

You can also see the Schmidt insect sting pain factor on that website. Apparently the western honey bee, the yellow jacket and the hornet stings all have the same or a similar pain factor?! I always thought the yellow jacket or hornet stings hurt more than the honey bee ones!

Have you seen an apitherapist?

Welcome to the wonderful world of bees! Happy stinging!

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 12/23/2020 7:45:26 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 8/8/2020 12:22 AM (GMT 0)

insomniaaa said...
Hi Aerose91 do you want to do honey bee venom or hornet / wasp venom therapy?
They would probably all work in one way or another but some of them might be more painful than others and come with different side effects. I've read that wasp venom is being used in a new therapy against breast cancer.
According to the website below only the honey bee venom contains the melittin peptide, but they all seem to have some other peptides / enzymes / proteins in common.

https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/08/28/insectvenoms/

You can also see the Schmidt insect sting pain factor on that website. Apparently the western honey bee, the yellow jacket and the hornet stings all have the same or a similar pain factor?! I always thought the yellow jacket or hornet stings hurt more than the honey bee ones!

Have you considered visiting a beekeeper nearby to get accustomed to the bees and to check if you're allergic using test or micro stings? Always keep your epipen nearby and never visit the bees on an empty stomach and keep up that vitamin c level. Some magnesium wouldn't hurt either. Also ask the beekeeper for a veil (very important! it could save your life if the beekeeper happens to have a hive of africanized bees!).

Welcome to the wonderful world of bees! Once you fall in love with the bees there ain't no going back. Happy stinging!

I really have no idea which is preferable. I only got stung by a hornet but is there any way of knowing if bee venom is better?
Posted 8/8/2020 7:30 AM (GMT 0)
""BV is produced by female worker bees and is known to contain many active components including: (i) peptides like melittin, apamin, mast cell degranulating (MCD) peptide, and adolapin, (ii) enzymes, such as phospholipase A2 (PLA2) and hyaluronidase, and (iii) amino acids and volatile compounds. Several studies assessed the therapeutic potential of these components in treating human inflammatory diseases as well as central nervous system diseases, such as Parkinson’s disease (PD), Alzheimer’s disease (AD), and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS"".

melittin is the one that kills ketes and viruses and has more anti inflammatory properties... the constituents of both insects venom are easily found online though hornets can sting multiple time they are kinda jerks . let us know what you find . ive heard red ants and stinging nettles produce same anti inflammatory effect.,,
Posted 8/8/2020 8:35 PM (GMT 0)

Aerose91 said...

I really have no idea which is preferable. I only got stung by a hornet but is there any way of knowing if bee venom is better?

I guess there's only one way to find out ;)
You need to find an experienced apitherapist in your vicinity. An experienced bee keeper should suffice as well.
Please let us know how your first honey bee test sting went and how you enjoyed it. Have fun!
Posted 8/10/2020 10:28 AM (GMT 0)
Beekeeper is unnecessary. If you want honeybees to sting with place a small dish of sugar water outside. Honey bees will find it shortly. They will be the older foragers. Just catch them with your tweezers and sting. I am a beekeeper and have had people ask for bees for stinging. Because of potential liability issues this is what I recommend. Heck this is what I do sometimes even though I have many hives that I could take bees from. Usually I take from the hives because I can get 15-20 all at once very quickly but dish of sugar water works just fine. No reason to pay for bees.
Posted 8/13/2020 8:14 AM (GMT 0)
I enjoy the BVT discussion. I have a question for bluelyme or WV Mike or anyone that might know: To start slow? Could I try one sting from one bee? (with a slight chance I may still be allergic remembering a childhood bee sting and an asthma histamine-like reaction). Is the epi-pen pure adrenaline or is it epinephrine which is the fight/flight response chemical right? Can you sting an easier place like hands, fingers, arms? And what about what I've heard that having to continue with consistent (daily/weekly) stings or risk higher chance of anaphylactic shock later? Anyway, I don't have an epi-pen, but I will get one before/if I start.
Posted 8/13/2020 11:43 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the info, going to look into this. Can you do it in addition to abx, or is it recommended to stop abx while doing bvt?
Posted 8/13/2020 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
well the way we test sting is to remove the stinger with really fine tweezers and 'microsting' the area with a quik tap. epi pens are for anaphylactic shock only ! do not admin for jitters heart racing etc only if throat closes to the point to asphyxiation! it is hell on the heart and adrenals but i think its the only thing that can clear it quickly, note if one is on beta blocking medications the epi pen will not work in an emergency!
most reactions can be cleared with a large dose of vit c 3-5000mg and some benadyrl .only 1 % of population is truley allergic. Btw it takes longer for the fine microvasculature in the extremities to process the venom therefore it is recommended that full stings be kept to the trunk until the body gets used to the venom . hands n feet will hurt more longer...during the dieoff honeymoon there is an itchy phase . aloe and homeopathy helped ... i have a utoob on microstinging maybe still up ...
re: abx + bvt ? the purists say no but bartonellas double cell wall suggested something different for me . rife and zhang combos were most benificial .. riffy hurt me and some organs a bit ...

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 8/13/2020 10:56:26 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/13/2020 6:09 PM (GMT 0)
BB, blue Lyme is the one to ask about apitherapy. I'm just a beekeeper who got Lyme and started bvt. If you have questions about where to get bees or how to take care of bees I can help. Not qualified to advise on BVT. I can just share what I did. I did between 8&15 stings every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I started out at 8 but I had already been getting stung multiple times frequently from beekeeping. I would definitely start slow at first. I did it for two and a half years plus abx and herbs. I quit for awhile, at least regularly stinging, and when we had a covid exposure I did 5 to 10 stings daily for seven days. Had a major herx for two weeks after that so I think I need to keep stinging. Wondering if maybe five days on five days off schedule might be better than every other day?
Posted 8/13/2020 8:16 PM (GMT 0)
Keep in mind that the epipen usually contains sodium metabisulphite (E223) which by itself can cause an anaphylactic reaction in sensitive people lol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc4017440/
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