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Lyme Disease
Is it coming for us all?
Yes - 50.8% - 31 votes
No - 49.2% - 30 votes
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Posted 9/5/2020 4:56 PM (GMT 0)

ChristianWithLyme said...
Do the current tests (antibody and pcr) only test for CV-19 or do they pick up other coronaviruses? The CDC says that the antibody test could pick up other coronaviruses. CDC appears to indicate that the viral test (I presume pcr) would not do this.


I don't know I guess that would be one cause of a false positive test result.. each test should have known rates of false positives and false negatives. I don't think other coronaviruses would be able to trigger a false positive everytime, though.. I believe the test is looking for antibodies that are specific to sars-cov-2, and I assume those can be differentiated from antibodies to other coronaviruses.

If the fear is then that new flare ups could at least partially be attributed to other, less dangerous coronaviruses coming in waves of their own.. this would theoretically be caught by comparing antibody and PCR test results from the same localities..

ChristianWithLyme said...
But now we're learning that the pcr could be picking up old infections or a small piece of something (at 50-90%). Doesn't seem right to include all these perhaps old infections as "new cases". Have we ever with a pandemic included people who were asymptomatic, barely any virus, and non-infectious in the case numbers?


As far as I know, patients eventually do clear RNA of the virus so that PCR no longer comes back positive (unless they die). If they are testing positive for the first time, then we should be counting them as a new case. If they test positive and never produce symptoms, then we learn more about how many patients infected are asymptomatic. It's all data and we have to take whatever we can get. No, we have never tracked common cold viruses in this way.

ChristianWithLyme said...
I know it's argued that CV is so contagious but is it really compared to other viruses/colds? Other viruses/colds spread around the world. If we were to test for other viruses/colds with pcr, would we come up with same number of "cases" when compared to CV? Just contemplating all this.


Contagiousness is measured as R0 or "R-naught". For herd immunity to take effect, infected individuals need to be infecting less than 1 other person on average, or less than R1. Seasonal flu is R1.3. Last estimate I've heard for sars-cov-2 was above R2. Values lower over time due to aquired immunity and behavior changes.

We don't bother tracking most other viruses so closely because the illnesses they cause are not as serious as covid-19.

ChristianWithLyme said...
Quote from twitter (@kerpen):

"Putting 30+ amplification cycle PCR tests in the case count is the same category error (past vs. present infection) as putting antibody positives in the case count."


Maybe that is comparable- I don't know... Does it really matter as long as the cycle threshold stays the same? ..and as long as the protocol for classifying antibody tests as positive stays the same? If those are adjusted and it's unannounced, then I would share in your concern that this data is being manipulated.

ChristianWithLyme said...
Another twitter quote (@DCMom2020):

"Lyme disease advocates have tried for years to get the CDC to change the way positives are read. Their requirements are ridiculous. Complete opposite of what they are doing with Covid. It underscores how data is manipulated. Bob, you need to address this. @CDCDirector."


Different objectives. We're trying to track the spread of a new contagious disease, not justify treatment (or non-treatment) of an illness.

ChristianWithLyme said...
The more I learn, the more I am convinced that terms like "presymptomatic", "contact tracing", "social distancing", etc. have been invented in order to advance an agenda.


They might be new to us, but they aren't new to science. The period when infected individuals appear to be the most contagious is a couple of days before symptom onset to a few days after. Those who never develop symptoms may not be very contagious, if at all. Those who go on to develop even very minor symptoms, are probably very contagious.

ChristianWithLyme said...
Now, look at Sweden and the US. The US is criticized for not locking down as stringently as some other countries but our cases and deaths have come down in states that have not locked down as much. Sweden barely has any deaths now. What is the explanation for this? Perhaps it is herd immunity.


I'm sure acquired immunity is playing a role but I don't think they have reached herd immunity. Most areas outside of Stockholm were not hit very hard. Swedish citizens have generally been following distancing guidelines without an enforced shutdown. They don't call each other "sheeple" for doing so either. Experts seem to think things will get worse for Sweden and everyone else in the fall/winter as more time is spent indoors. We'll see what happens...

ChristianWithLyme said...
Also, I believe even the CDC says that exposure to a past coronavirus could give you more immunity to CV. Knowing this, wouldn't exposure to CV give us better immunity to future viruses? Why is it now that they want everyone to hide and not be exposed? If you're vulnerable, be careful, but if you're healthy, I would say be exposed in order to protect yourself and others.


The less vulnerable inevitably spread it to the more vulnerable. The path the experts have chosen is to try to keep as many people from being exposed as possible. I don't even think Anders Tegnell of Sweden would say otherwise. We're having a really hard time trusting the experts in the US.

ChristianWithLyme said...
Germany's deaths may not have surpassed that of a flu season (typical or perhaps severe). My main focus with his video was where he talked about the test being used. If I recall correctly, he had concerns about the test like if test indicated danger or like what the test was measuring. Old chart for Germany comparing years:

https://twitter.com/destatis_news/status/1263774179360477184


Interesting. Is that because they kept exposure so low though? This article was posted a few pages back and it has more info on other countries..

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries
Posted 9/5/2020 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
CWL: That piece on Fauci looks like a struggle to portray uncontroversial views as controversial. Author is twisting Fauci's words in bizarre ways. Still don't get why he's such a boogy man.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:03 PM (GMT 0)
Are hunger deaths also less important than Covid19 deaths?

All predictions show that there will be MILLIONS dead by hunger DUE to governmental measures done to 'stop' the SarsCov2.
"By the end of the year, as many as 12,000 people could die a day from hunger linked to Covid-19, potentially more than those perishing from the virus itself, charity Oxfam International estimates."

Just make a simple calculation: 12,000 people dying from hunger / day, due to covid19 measures. In 3 months (100 days), there will be 1.2 MILLION deaths by hunger from Covid19 measures!!

It will take 12 months for Covid19 to make 1 million deaths, but 3 months for Covid19 measures to kill 1.2 million people.

https://theprint.in/world/hunger-could-kill-more-people-than-the-covid-pandemic-in-2020/492494/
Posted 9/5/2020 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
Shasta: I think you're making a mistake in attributing all negative outcomes to containment measures and none to the threat of the virus itself.. and how much worse might those negative outcomes get if there are no containment measures?

As far as 1 million covid-19 deaths, we'd be having them despite our efforts to contain the virus. Belgium, Argentina- I don't know enough about their circumstances to really comment.

TB: I honestly don't know much about that either, do you? Is it not being treated as a contagious disease? When there's an outbreak do societies aim for "herd immunity"? I know there is a vaccine...
Posted 9/5/2020 7:26 PM (GMT 0)

TuffyR said...
astroman said...: "And how are your opinions the "end all"?

My opinions are not the end all. But I didn't think there could be someone more callus than me. Your demeaning and dismissive attitude about others lives and suffering infuriates me. And that's saying something because I am the king of not giving a @#$k about most people.

So Im like you...only worse (?).

Got it.

Well, at least I one-upped you.

Where's my trophy? LOL

Take a chill pill Tuffy, and have a nice day : )

---------------------------------------------------

(The fact that I help people with health questions here (for years), means probably nothing. Yep, I care about no-one apparently.)

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/5/2020 1:30:56 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/5/2020 8:28 PM (GMT 0)

potsnpans said...
and how much worse might those negative outcomes get if there are no containment measures?

Here's the problem, you cannot contain it once it's in the wild. You can only delay it.

Remember the shutdowns were to give hospitals breathing room not contain the virus. Then it morphed into some Orwellian nightmare of extended shutdowns. NYC is likely already at herd immunity because of how bad they had it. There are currently 4 deaths or fewer per day in the entire state of NY. Hospitals have plenty of capacity. Proven treatments are finally getting used and saving lives. Yet they're still choking the city to death with shutdowns. Insanity.

The idiot in New Zealand locked down the country until there were no active cases, took a victory lap, got praised by the world media, and as soon as they opened up the country had a resurgence of cases and shut it down again. Well duh! Science! They'll never reach a natural herd immunity if every time there are 5 cases they lock down the entire country.

They're making a big stink now that 800 students at some university tested positive. Fantastic, that's 800 young people who can no longer get it, who won't die from it, who won't bring it home to a high risk family member, and who can go about their lives without living in fear. Amen.
Posted 9/5/2020 9:13 PM (GMT 0)
TuffyR: Hasn't NYC been easing restrictions since their case numbers came down?

Aquired immunity is no doubt playing a role in restrictions being eased and us being able to live more normally. However, I don't know of any qualified source that currently thinks societies are at herd immunity, or that they can get there and stay there.. too many more deaths and too much economic destruction will come with it (Knut Wittowski touted herd immunity in maybe April, but I haven't heard from him lately). Shouldn't that give you pause?

Meanwhile your entire position relies on this theory, and when others disagree you've been calling them stupid, immoral, or just plain sheep. How about a little mutual understanding instead, my friend?

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 9/5/2020 5:17:43 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/5/2020 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
Well for some people it’s their way or the highway no matter what. They don’t change.

—————

Since hospitals are not backed up at the moment, the whole mask and stay home order (wherever that’s still going on?) is now to slow spread while a so called vaccine is ready. If one will work or not is not what I’m getting into here.
Posted 9/5/2020 9:33 PM (GMT 0)
A few recent ideas on HCQ:

Last sentence in article is "Treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was associated with lower mortality in these patients".

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-70219/v1

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/vitamin-d3-mixed-with-hydroxychloroquine-shows-promise-in-treating-covid-19-study

Quote from Twitter (@CryptoNephilim):

"The UAE has one of the highest test per capita rates and lowest mortality rates in the world.

All covid19 cases except the critically ill are treated with hydroxychloroquine.

Since June, treatment guidelines have included vitamin c, vitamin d, and zinc."

https://www.dha.gov.ae/en/healthregulation/documents/national_guidelines_of_covid_19_1st_june_2020.pdf

See pages 13-14 for treatment protocols. Could be a connection between low deaths and HCQ.
Posted 9/6/2020 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
although some random twitter person says everyone in the UAE is getting HCQ I can't find a single reference for that.

what I can find is this study done by UAE scientists which show that HCQ actually inhibits the virus from being cleared.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20082180v1.full.pdf

Somebody said...


Conclusion: HCQ was associated with a slower viral clearance in COVID-19 patients
with mild to moderate disease.

Posted 9/6/2020 3:15 AM (GMT 0)
The REDDIT forum on covid is really good on this topic is shockingly good. They only discuss the science and ban anyone offering opinions or anecdotes about economic impacts, unsourced speculation or anecdotes. It's refreshing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/

(but if you want more conjecture on the politization of all things Covid and HCQ they also have that in the r/Conspiracy reddit.)
Posted 9/6/2020 12:12 PM (GMT 0)

potsnpans said...
Shasta: I think you're making a mistake in attributing all negative outcomes to containment measures and none to the threat of the virus itself.. and how much worse might those negative outcomes get if there are no containment measures?

As far as 1 million covid-19 deaths, we'd be having them despite our efforts to contain the virus. Belgium, Argentina- I don't know enough about their circumstances to really comment.

TB: I honestly don't know much about that either, do you? Is it not being treated as a contagious disease? When there's an outbreak do societies aim for "herd immunity"? I know there is a vaccine...

Potspans, containment measures started only to lower the pace of infections to ease hospitals from overcrowding.
Now, it became a war against the virus, it has NOTHING to do with easing hospitals, that have been running at a much lower pace since March (here in Europe, at least).

Nurses and doctors are losing their jobs, as hospitals never got back to the condition pre-lock down.
The reopening of Europe has been much worse than the lock down.

Here, some countries did crazy things to 'contain' the spreading of the virus, but in the end, Sweden, that didn't, didn't get the 1st prize in terms of percentage of death.
Locking down or not locking down, people died and are still dying. Look at Peru, they locked down before Europe and the USA, and there are still people dying there, and they are not Nr.1 in percentage of deaths.

What I find crazy is that some governments insist in locking down and doing arbitrary measures, while other governments do little and the result is just very similar, in terms of deaths.

If governments were worried about us, the population, they should lock down every single year, the whole year even, when TB appears (TB never really disappears).

TB kills much more than any corona viruses (even SarsCov1 does not win from TB), but what I criticize is that the media does not even mention TB, and governments simply do very little against the spread of TB - why no one closes the planet for TB, that is much more deadly than SarsCov2 (70% death rate in some places), that infects millions of new people every year? TB became antibiotic resistant in most areas, that's why there's such a high death toll.

That looks crazy to me - NOTHING, literally is done to contain TB, while EVERYTHING is done to contain SarsCov2, while TB is much more dangerous and actually killing millions?
Isn't that weird?
Posted 9/6/2020 12:15 PM (GMT 0)

Lapis_29 said...
although some random twitter person says everyone in the UAE is getting HCQ I can't find a single reference for that.


Yeah CWL the pdf you referenced from the UAE says this:

"Table 1: Therapeutic Regimens for Adults
 There is no approved therapy for COVID19 to date. Medications used are off label or experimental, based on best available data."

HCQ is listed with other experimental treatment options, but it's hard to know how much it's actually being used there.

The other study you posted shows that it helped elderly patients in a healthcare facility. Does it help more than the steroid cocktail that is typically being administered in this setting? Can they be administered together? I do recognize the argument for outpatient use in these patients..

Edit: Study is still a pre-print (not published), and it only analyzed 100 covid-19 confirmed cases. HCQ wasn't really the focus, and I don't believe the HCQ data would be significant enough to be published on its own.

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 9/6/2020 1:40:48 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/6/2020 12:18 PM (GMT 0)
Concerning hydroxychloroquine, if you all have time to read some of these studies, you'll probably take the same conclusion as I have.

While there are indeed studies showing it does not work for Covid19, they loose largely to studies that show it works (in terms of diminishing mortality and diminishing time patients spend in hospital).

There's a crushing majority of studies showing how much it helps, in fact. None of them, of course, are discussed in the main media. I'm not talking about 5, 10 studies, but dozens of studies as seen in the link below.

If I had a close family member suffering from Covid19, I would try to find someone to prescribe chloroquine.

https://c19study.com/
Posted 9/6/2020 12:28 PM (GMT 0)
Here is the whole story about hydroxychloroquine and Covid19.

This was written by a guy who was extremely afraid of Covid19 even before any lock down.
In the end, he came up with this amazing storyline about Hydroxychloroquine.

He narrates it in chronological order, one thing after another, he said no one sent him critics of what he wrote so far.
I contacted him in Twitter yesterday.

If you have the patience to read it all, it's very interesting and it becomes clear something smells very fishy.
https://truthabouthcq.com/hcq-works/
Posted 9/6/2020 1:04 PM (GMT 0)

Shasta said...


There's a crushing majority of studies showing how much it helps, in fact. None of them, of course, are discussed in the main media. I'm not talking about 5, 10 studies, but dozens of studies as seen in the link below.



https://c19study.com/

This is simply not true. And that site if full of misinformation

ALLLLLLLL of the studies with actual control groups, known as RCT studies, show either no effect or an actual negative effect on patients for HCQ when treating covid.

All of them, without exception. The only ones that show positive effects are the ones without control groups which are nearly meaningless, especially considering over 98% recover regardless of what treatment you give them.
Posted 9/6/2020 2:44 PM (GMT 0)

Shasta said...
Potspans, containment measures started only to lower the pace of infections to ease hospitals from overcrowding.
Now, it became a war against the virus, it has NOTHING to do with easing hospitals, that have been running at a much lower pace since March (here in Europe, at least).


Every change in societal behavior takes probably a month before it begins to show up in the data. So we get the virus contained as best we can, and then slowly start to ease restrictions. Is this not the strategy you've seen in Europe?

It is impossible to maintain a steady state where the virus is circulating at the brink of hospitals being overwhelmed. If that's what you were thinking, you must have misunderstood.

Shasta said...
The reopening of Europe has been much worse than the lock down.


Can you clarify that?

Shasta said...
What I find crazy is that some governments insist in locking down and doing arbitrary measures, while other governments do little and the result is just very similar, in terms of deaths.


You may have identified some outliers, but this is not true across the board. I am curious about the whole picture of the countries you've mentioned, as there are many other factors to consider.

Lockdowns are effective at a cost. Let's not pretend they aren't effective at all.

Shasta said...
That looks crazy to me - NOTHING, literally is done to contain TB, while EVERYTHING is done to contain SarsCov2, while TB is much more dangerous and actually killing millions?
Isn't that weird?


TB is just not the comparison that you're making it out to be. TB is a bacterial infection and I don't think it can be spread until after the infected begin to show symptoms. It is much more deadly, but there is a vaccine for TB.. we have antibiotics working against it.. we don't really have outbreaks in the Western world anymore.

Should more be done to prevent deaths in Africa? Yes for sure.. but when there is an outbreak there, how do you think it is dealt with? I would assume they don't hope for herd immunity through infections.
Posted 9/6/2020 6:16 PM (GMT 0)

Lapis_29 said...

Shasta said...


There's a crushing majority of studies showing how much it helps, in fact. None of them, of course, are discussed in the main media. I'm not talking about 5, 10 studies, but dozens of studies as seen in the link below.



https://c19study.com/

This is simply not true. And that site if full of misinformation

ALLLLLLLL of the studies with actual control groups, known as RCT studies, show either no effect or an actual negative effect on patients for HCQ when treating covid.

All of them, without exception. The only ones that show positive effects are the ones without control groups which are nearly meaningless, especially considering over 98% recover regardless of what treatment you give them.

This is correct. I went through the list of studies on https://c19study.com and it became shockingly clear how many poorly conducted studies they are citing. One had 6 PEOPLE and no control and that was considered a "Positive Study". Also, the map graphic above is such a sensational presentation of data it's ridiculous.

I believe that HCQ is a good drug,I believe that Big Pharma is working against our interests, I strongly believe that the CDC and FDA are corrupt organizations but most of all I strongly believe in the scientific method.

Unfortunately, the good science on HCQ with Covid 19 just isn't there. Covid 19 is not as deadly as originally thought and we have learned much more about treating it therapeutically in the last few months, but HCQ is not a miracle drug for Covid 19 by any scientific standard. As mentioned above, 98% of people recover no matter what you throw at it.

It's exhausting to see people keep posting links to studies with junk science as "proof" of a narrative they want to convey when they clearly haven't read the study or used any critical thinking. It's just as frustrating as seeing the junk politics coming out of all sides of the political spectrum on this issue.

As Lyme patients that have been used and abused by the CDC, FDA and big pharma we know how they have all tried to gaslight us, but that's even more reason why we need to double down on the accuracy and standards used to study therapeutics for Covid 19 or any other disease.
Posted 9/6/2020 8:03 PM (GMT 0)

MarkD said...


It's exhausting to see people keep posting links to studies with junk science as "proof" of a narrative they want to convey when they clearly haven't read the study or used any critical thinking. ...........................It's just as frustrating as seeing the junk politics coming out of all sides of the political spectrum on this issue.

Well said Mark. It’s good to see occasional common sense on this post.

I like that reditt it had the brains to confine one covid thread to science and the other one to the conspiracy BS for those that follow that Mindset.

Conventional medicine and the CDC are obviously corrupt and all about money but that doesn’t mean this whole thing is about controlling the world population , if that was the case it would’ve happened already , there’s easier ways to do that.

Anyone who’s worked for a large corporation with thousands of people across the world will realize the bigger something is the harder it is to do things right and efficiently , that is exactly what we’re seeing here with the Covid thing.

If you research using neutral common sense, gut instinct and put emotion aside, you will see what is BS and what is not , unfortunately some peoples brains do not work that way. And they are sometimes totally unaware of this.
Posted 9/6/2020 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
"Conventional medicine and the CDC are obviously corrupt and all about money but that doesn’t mean this whole thing is about controlling the world population.."

Yep, people think there's corruption in places where there isn't w covid-19.. the death counts are a good example.

+1 on MarkD's post as well.

I'm breaking my bad habit of only posting when I take issue with something that is said/linked to smile

"Anyone who’s worked for a large corporation with thousands of people across the world will realize the bigger something is the harder it is to do things right and efficiently , that is exactly what we’re seeing here with the Covid thing."

+1 again. It's like steering a huge ship rather than a motorboat. Some of the fringe ideas may eventually become mainstream too.. that is why I don't mind entertaining them.

Also sometimes the line between fringe and unfounded conspiracy gets blurry and needs to be better defined.

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 9/6/2020 5:42:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/7/2020 12:30 AM (GMT 0)
So as new info keeps coming in its now clear Covid is NOT a type of pneumonia or just the "super flu" as some have claimed.

Instead its on infection of the endothelium, which is the lining of your blood vessels. This is why its so much more deadly than the flu or pneumonia

Somebody said...


https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/32/3038/5901158

The endgame of COVID-19 usually involves a cytokine storm, a phlogistic phenomenon fed by well-understood positive feedback loops that govern cytokine production and overwhelm counter-regulatory mechanisms. The concept of COVID-19 as an endothelial disease provides a unifying pathophysiological picture of this raging infection, and also provides a framework for a rational treatment strategy at a time when we possess an indeed modest evidence base to guide our therapeutic attempts to confront this novel pandemic

.

Posted 9/7/2020 1:30 AM (GMT 0)

Lapis_29 said...
So as new info keeps coming in its now clear Covid is NOT a type of pneumonia or just the "super flu" as some have claimed.

Instead its on infection of the endothelium, which is the lining of your blood vessels. This is why its so much more deadly than the flu or pneumonia

From page 10 of Buhner’s 19 page Coronavirus protocol (3/1/20 document):

“Endothelial cells become porous and organ and cellular integrity is lost. In short the excessive Ang-2 levels (due to the destruction of the ACE-2 cells by the virus) causes massive damage to the lungs. Lymph and spleen tissues are often quite compromised as well.

Protecting the cells from the induced hypoxia significantly reduces the damage in the lungs. (Rhodiola is specific for this. It prevents hypoxia-induced oxidative damage, increases intracellular oxygen diffusion, and increases the efficiency of oxygen utilization.)

Again, the virus specifically targets (and replicates within) ciliated cells, destroying the cells and their capacity to move mucous up and out of the lungs. (Cilia-protective herbs are Cordyceps spp, olive oil and leaf, any berberine- containing plants, and Bidens pilosa.)
Autoantibodies are produced that begin to attack host epithelial and endothelial cells, increasing the destruction. Reducing autoimmunity (Rhodiola, Astragalus, Cordyceps spp) and protecting endothelial cells (Polygonum cuspidatum – Japanese knotweed root) is crucial.”

If you go to the latest version and do a word search on endothelial, there are about 30 references.
Posted 9/7/2020 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
thanks, that looks like good info and recommendations
Posted 9/7/2020 3:28 AM (GMT 0)
Regarding Blood Clotting due to COVID-19, Buhner states the following on pages 27-28 of the COVID-19 protocol (Aug 20, 2020):

“ Given that coagulation (clotting) problems are so extremely common with this infection – as well as the fact that many people appear well but suddenly experience stroke or heart attack – the use of anti-coagulants is, I think, essential. A number of the herbs suggested for use in treating Covid-19 infections are anticoagulant and very specific for protecting endothelial cells from inflammatory damage and/or stopping clotting – Salvia miltiorrhiza, Polygonum cuspidatum, and Scutellaria baicalensis are some examples. However, I think the daily use of specific anticlotting agents is warranted – whether someone is infected or not. I suggest either lumbrokinase or nattokinase – and yes, serrapeptase will work, too, but it is very weak compared to the other two. (Lumbrokinase is 30 times stronger than nattokinase, 300 times stronger than serrapeptase; I would suggest that only lumbrokinase be used given the excessive clotting the virus causes.)

Again, many people show no symptoms at all but are still experiencing severe coagulation/clotting problems in their circulatory systems. And to reiterate: One of the best ways to determine how much clotting is occurring is to check the blood for D-dimer levels. D-dimer is released during fibrin degradation; the more D-28 dimer, the more clotting. Again, all people who are tested for the virus should also be being tested for D-dimer levels . . . but they are not and most probably will not be. Thus the daily use of an anticoagulant such as lumbrokinase is strongly suggested (even if you feel you have no or minor symptoms) as well as checking blood oxygen levels daily with an oximeter. (Those already on anti-clotting drugs, aka “blood thinners,” should avoid the use of lumbrokinase or, at minimum, approach its use with caution.)”
———————
In the protocol regarding anticoagulants, he includes this information, which explains a lot.

“ Lumbrokinase: 1 capsule am and 1 capsule pm.

And yes, you can use nattokinase or serrapeptase. However . . . lumbrokinase is 30 times stronger than nattokinase and 300 times stronger than serrapeptase. Because the clotting during Covid-19 is so severe, I think lumbrokinase the best approach. Serrapeptase has other functions which make it useful during infection (despite it not being a very good fibrinolytic agent): it modulates temperature fluctuations in the body, relieves sinus pressure and inflammation especially during infection, degrades fibrin (but not very well), breaks down mucus in the lungs, helps break down circulating toxins and cellular debris, and is generally anti-inflammatory, and is especially good for helping relieve swelling and minor pains in the body. It is a very useful adjunct for lung conditions such as COPD. Nattokinase is best used for mild hypercoagulation problems and to break down fibrin (or scarring) in the body (including the lungs), lumbrokinase is best for severe hypercoagulation problems and, as well, breaking down fibrin (scarring) in the body. Both enhance circulatory health. (Note: some people think that earthworm-based forms of lumbrokinase are better than its synthetic, chemically produced forms. The best of these seems to be Canada RNA brand but it is very expensive; the dosage is half of the synthetic forms.)
Caution: Nattokinase and lumbrokinase should be used with caution if you are taking pharmaceutical “blood thinners.””

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 9/6/2020 9:50:13 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/7/2020 12:15 PM (GMT 0)
New Study: Vitamin D reduces risk of ICU admission 97%!


https://covid.us.org/2020/09/03/new-study-vitamin-d-reduces-risk-of-icu-admission-97/[url]
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