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Bulging Veins in Ankles

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Posted 9/15/2020 1:55 AM (GMT 0)
I've noticed a vein on each inner ankle that has seemed to grow over the past year, with some mild, intermittent pain near each of them as I've been dealing with suspected Bartonella/Babesia. I'm on Rifampin/Doxy/Oregano Oil right now. Is this something anyone else has dealt with? Is it normal during treatment? If so, does it get better? Anything else I should rule out?
Posted 9/15/2020 3:39 AM (GMT 0)
My (unqualified) guess is that you may have some vascular damage from Bartonella and/or Babesia. Bartonella, especially, can cause vascular problems, most commonly in the legs/feet. Though you'll be lucky if you find any vascular docs around who are familiar with that fact. It could be that some Herxing is going on, also, with some autoimmune stuff also contributing. I'm including a link down below, that Girlie posted a while ago, with photos depicting the variety of rashes and skin/vascular problems that can be caused by Lyme and the co-infectors. Some of the photos are extreme examples (yuck warning!).

I'm on Rifabutin, right now (pulsing), as part of a Bartonella/Borrelia protocol. And Rifabutin, like Rifampin, will be hurting and killing Bart. I've had to get myself to a vascular specialist (even though the guy knows next to nothing about Lyme), because of having seriously swollen feet and toes after a major Herx I had last December. I also noticed a couple of enlarged veins on my feet & ankles--and wound up having bluish/black spots on my toes that turned out to be blood clotting there in the farthest extremity from the heart. The vascular Doc found that I had blood clots in both legs, in the upper thigh areas--and compromised blood flow back to the heart. Which also could be caused by long-term Lyme, though we'll probably never know for sure. It's possible that I've had Lyme for decades, since I lived for several years in Connecticut when Lyme was rearing it's head in the mid-80s. And was tick-bit a number of times, there.

I've needed to have (along with the new blood-thinner, Eliquis) a couple of unpleasant vascular procedures done, in order to prevent future blood clots. And the Eliquis (along with exercise, in my opinion) eventually dissolved the three clot areas I had in the upper thighs.

Personally, if I were you I'd keep an eye out for any sores or hematomas below the skin, in your feet & toes. But you may very well be on the right track, treating for Bart.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPCghqfePpqXpT0idln_kuFl82Q8NrezteAzVozBrfyNXvLJ_F7ld8GgwJPRwrvPQ?key=VUV5R1hEZUViR2tsbjgtUDR0dkRMS1BHUHItb0dn

Post Edited (BlueRidgeDave) : 9/14/2020 9:43:16 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/15/2020 4:24 AM (GMT 0)

BlueRidgeDave said...
My (unqualified) guess is that you may have some vascular damage from Bartonella and/or Babesia. Bartonella, especially, can cause vascular problems, most commonly in the legs/feet. Though you'll be lucky if you find any vascular docs around who are familiar with that fact. It could be that some Herxing is going on, also, with some autoimmune stuff also contributing. I'm including a link down below, that Girlie posted a while ago, with photos depicting the variety of rashes and skin/vascular problems that can be caused by Lyme and the co-infectors. Some of the photos are extreme examples (yuck warning!).

I'm on Rifabutin, right now (pulsing), as part of a Bartonella/Borrelia protocol. And Rifabutin, like Rifampin, will be hurting and killing Bart. I've had to get myself to a vascular specialist (even though the guy knows next to nothing about Lyme), because of having seriously swollen feet and toes after a major Herx I had last December. I also noticed a couple of enlarged veins on my feet & ankles--and wound up having bluish/black spots on my toes that turned out to be blood clotting there in the farthest extremity from the heart. The vascular Doc found that I had blood clots in both legs, in the upper thigh areas--and compromised blood flow back to the heart. Which also could be caused by long-term Lyme, though we'll probably never know for sure. It's possible that I've had Lyme for decades, since I lived for several years in Connecticut when Lyme was rearing it's head in the mid-80s. And was tick-bit a number of times, there.

I've needed to have (along with the new blood-thinner, Eliquis) a couple of unpleasant vascular procedures done, in order to prevent future blood clots. And the Eliquis (along with exercise, in my opinion) eventually dissolved the three clot areas I had in the upper thighs.

Personally, if I were you I'd keep an eye out for any sores or hematomas below the skin, in your feet & toes. But you may very well be on the right track, treating for Bart.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPCghqfePpqXpT0idln_kuFl82Q8NrezteAzVozBrfyNXvLJ_F7ld8GgwJPRwrvPQ?key=VUV5R1hEZUViR2tsbjgtUDR0dkRMS1BHUHItb0dn

Thank you! I saw a vascular specialist last week who downplayed everything I had going but I was persistent so I have a veinous ultrasound scheduled for Wednesday. Is that a test you had done?
Posted 9/15/2020 9:32 AM (GMT 0)
Lyme and Bartonella are both known cause vascular damage

mycoplasma also and Chlamydia organisms also to some degree (ref buhner's writings on the pathology of these organisms in his co-infection books)

all by infecting the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels

Bart in particular may cause additional proliferation of endothelial cells where they are not wanted that can cause blockage
Posted 9/15/2020 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
measure them. and keep track weekly. its likely they aren't bulging so much as collegen and muscle mass/ cutaneous fat are actually shrinking makeing veins appear larger...,?
Posted 9/15/2020 5:44 PM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
measure them. and keep track weekly. its likely they aren't bulging so much as collegen and muscle mass/ cutaneous fat are actually shrinking makeing veins appear larger...,?

I’m wondering the same

My skin seems thin and I can see my veins more - but not sure they’re really bulging.
Posted 9/15/2020 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Garzie, and bluelyme. Those are definitely other things to consider. And def., what bluelyme said--collagen & skin can get thinner (from Bart, primarily, I think?). Apparently the skin can get so thin that it can easily bruise or even tear.

And yes, UAZip05. The first step the vascular docs did was a superficial ultrasound of the feet/ankles, where the doc performing it said that I had restricted arterial flow in the feet and almost unnoticeable vein blood flow on one side of each foot. They then scheduled a thorough ultrasound of both arteries & veins from the groin to my toes. That test detected somewhat major blood clots in my Great Saphenous vein, at the upper thigh. They put me on the new (and few side-effects) blood-thinner called Eliquis--very expensive, but my Medicare insurance covered most of it. After 3 months or so on the blood-thinner (and for myself, I decided on intense mountain trail-hiking), the blood clots had dissolved. That was good news. The Great Saphenous vein, in the thigh, is apparently a problematic vein for anyone (Lyme or no Lyme), and can get clotting/restricted flow fairly commonly.
Posted 9/15/2020 8:31 PM (GMT 0)

BlueRidgeDave said...
Thanks, Garzie, and bluelyme. Those are definitely other things to consider. And def., what bluelyme said--collagen & skin can get thinner (from Bart, primarily, I think?). Apparently the skin can get so thin that it can easily bruise or even tear.

And yes, UAZip05. The first step the vascular docs did was a superficial ultrasound of the feet/ankles, where the doc performing it said that I had restricted arterial flow in the feet and almost unnoticeable vein blood flow on one side of each foot. They then scheduled a thorough ultrasound of both arteries & veins from the groin to my toes. That test detected somewhat major blood clots in my Great Saphenous vein, at the upper thigh. They put me on the new (and few side-effects) blood-thinner called Eliquis--very expensive, but my Medicare insurance covered most of it. After 3 months or so on the blood-thinner (and for myself, I decided on intense mountain trail-hiking), the blood clots had dissolved. That was good news. The Great Saphenous vein, in the thigh, is apparently a problematic vein for anyone (Lyme or no Lyme), and can get clotting/restricted flow fairly commonly.

Thank you everyone! I don't believe my skin is thinning out or muscles are getting smaller, but I will try to measure to be sure.

@BlueRidgeDave - may I ask how you've been with your feet/ankles since the clots resolved? Have most of the related symptoms also resolved?
Posted 9/16/2020 3:56 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, actually a lot of it got better (especially swollen feet and hematomas in my toes) after I got started on Eliquis (blood-thinner). And they wanted me to start wearing compression stockings almost immediately (which I use pretty much every day--knee-high and also thigh-high stockings). Not too bad to get on and off, and my legs feel better wearing them. They seem to help, even, a bit with the nerve pain from my spinal trouble. The only thing I notice now, is that at night when I take the compr. stockings off, my left foot is still red-colored compared to my right. But that evens out overnight, and both feet look the same by morning. My left leg is where I had 2 clots, while I had just one in the Great Saphenous vein in my right leg--and my left foot & ankle were always (since my December Herx) much worse and more swollen than my right.
I'm still going to have one more vascular procedure done . . . a wire-mesh stent put into the Iliac vein on the right side of my pelvis/groin. Since I had somewhat major clotting in the legs (essentially DVT, or deep-vein thrombosis) the surgeon there performed a "Venigram" of the groin/pelvis area to see if veins higher up were also a problem. And found a couple of veins where there was a fair amount of "reflux"--circulation flowing poorly and a likely future clot area. He closed off one small vein on the left side of the pelvis, and the stent will be put into a larger vein on the right side. Seems like the next right thing to do (along with committing myself to getting more vigorous exercise, and treating for Bart/Borrelia/Babesia). If there's been damage to my veins (from Bartonella, most likely), maybe I can minimize any future trouble, as long as I seriously treat for Lyme & the co-infectors. . . .
Posted 9/18/2020 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
I have bulging veins in my ankles too.

I also have poor circulation. My hands and feet are always red or purple and numb.
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