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Posted 1/9/2018 9:15 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,
I thought I'd share with everyone what I'm doing currently to treat 10 years of babesia and lyme, unsuccessfully treated until (hopefully) now...

(symptoms are depression, fatigue, very severe inflammatory arthritis (-->osteoarthritis), brain fog, night sweats, and all sorts of chest discomfort)

Japanese knotweed tincture glycerite - 1tsp 3x/day
Japanese knotweed cut and sifted powder tea - 2tsp 3x/day
Japanese knotweed powder in water - 3-6tsp/day
Cryptolepis tincture glycerite - 1 tsp 3x/day
Artemisia 5:1 extract POWDER - 150-450mg 3x/day
Cat's Claw - currently around 1000mg 3x/day

Unmeasured, in varying doses:

Alfalfa powder - LOTS (for inflammation)
Boneset tea - 3x/day (for night sweats)
Spirulina
Chlorella
Pau D'arco
Maca root
Peppermint
Lion's Mane
Oatstraw
Barleygrass
Essiac powder (a combo of burdock, slippery elm, sheep sorrel, and Indian rhubarb root)

In TEENY doses, because very very sensitive:

Eleuthero
Diatomaceous Earth
Reishi
Slippery Elm (makes me itch but it's a good itch)

Occasionally will micro-dose Iboga rootbark (VERY POWERFUL) for guidance, antimicrobial effect, balancing effect on general system holistically.

Also will dose with Salvia divinorum-- does wonders for mental clarity and presence. Grounding and circulation-enhancing in a similar way to saunas.

My only real concern here is any negative interaction between the Siberian ginseng (eleuthero) and the iboga, or the Artemisia and the iboga. Something with the liver?

I'm about 54 days into the Cryptolepis + Artemisia protocol (going for 60!) and
like 80 days into the Japanese knotweed storm and
about 20 days into the crazy mess of dosing all the other herbs. What fun! Oy. To be chained to being indoors for 3x day at set intervals...

Thanks for reading!
Posted 1/9/2018 9:40 PM (GMT 0)
Ah I miss my psychonauting days. Lyme just makes me feel to fragile. Salvia and Iboga are especially strong I hear.
Posted 1/9/2018 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
The Salvia divinorum I chew, so it's not the craaaazy experience most people make it out to be.
And the iboga, like I said, small doses.

Post Edited (TheRhythm) : 1/9/2018 2:55:13 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/9/2018 11:02 PM (GMT 0)
Are you taking all those herbs on a daily basis? That's a lot.
Posted 1/10/2018 12:27 AM (GMT 0)
Boy that's a lot of herbs. I trust you researched each one and know what it does and why it is helpful. So with that said good luck.

I didn't get better until I went all in on herbs that cover all the basis. When I first started herbs, I didn't know what I was doing and taking too little and too far between.

It wasn't until I stopped being lazy and cheap and went all in did I get better. Which I guess makes sense. Full protocols, consistently for a long period time is how you have to do it if you go the herbal route.
Posted 1/10/2018 12:38 AM (GMT 0)
You might want to consult an herbalist about taking all of them at once.
Posted 1/10/2018 12:55 AM (GMT 0)

TheRhythm said...
The Salvia divinorum I chew, so it's not the craaaazy experience most people make it out to be.
And the iboga, like I said, small doses.

I've been interested in trying that and growing a plant just for the sake of it. Just need to learn not to kill them first. That's interesting with the iboga though. I've heard a lot of flood dose stories, but not so much small doses.

You wouldn't happen to be RhythmSpring on another forum would you? Lol
Posted 1/10/2018 2:11 AM (GMT 0)
It’s just the 4 herbs in the first group - the JK, CC, Art and Crypto that are targeting the infections - so not really a lot - but that is a very high JK dose.

What do you mean “going for 60”? You’re not stopping Babesia treatment after 60 days are you?

Also something to think about - down the road - is Bartonella Treatment.
Posted 1/13/2018 8:42 PM (GMT 0)

cakegirl said...
You might want to consult an herbalist about taking all of them at once.

Good idea. I will do that soon. Especially since I am considering adding Rhodiola rosea, which I believe is a slight MAOI, which might interact funny with the Ginseng (Eleuthero) or the Iboga.
Posted 1/13/2018 8:48 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
It’s just the 4 herbs in the first group - the JK, CC, Art and Crypto that are targeting the infections - so not really a lot - but that is a very high JK dose.

What do you mean “going for 60”? You’re not stopping Babesia treatment after 60 days are you?

Also something to think about - down the road - is Bartonella Treatment.

Thanks, Girlie. Is there anything else you would add to target the infection? I tried Andrographis and it did not like me. I am trusting the iboga and a slowly strengthening immune system to take care of the Lyme, even if it takes me a year or two. My body is SO delicate after 10 years of mayhem that I want to be as careful as possible and not "wake the beast," if you get what I mean.

Hmmm, 60 days of Babs treament was what Buhner suggested, but something tells me you're right and I should continue... I'm still barely walking right now.

I never tested positive for Bartonella, only Lyme and Babesia.
Posted 1/14/2018 4:26 PM (GMT 0)
If you are trying to follow Buhner's protocol you are missing cytokine remodulation herbs and collagen protection.
Posted 1/14/2018 6:34 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
If you are trying to follow Buhner's protocol you are missing cytokine remodulation herbs and collagen protection.

Isn't Cat's Claw pretty powerful cytokine remodulation? Also, I am eating broths, stews, and enough meat to protect my collagen. Dosing with straight collagen or bone broths makes me crave meat right afterwards to balance it out.
Posted 1/14/2018 7:23 PM (GMT 0)
Buhner lists Cat's Claw as an Immune Remodulation herb. His herbs for Cytokine remodulation are Red Sage and Skullcap.

Do you have his Healing Lyme, 2nd Ed book? Go to chapter 8 for his protocol.

By the way, you are probably doing great with your collagen protection choices.

Keep up the good work!
Posted 1/14/2018 8:22 PM (GMT 0)

TheRhythm said...

Girlie said...
It’s just the 4 herbs in the first group - the JK, CC, Art and Crypto that are targeting the infections - so not really a lot - but that is a very high JK dose.

What do you mean “going for 60”? You’re not stopping Babesia treatment after 60 days are you?

Also something to think about - down the road - is Bartonella Treatment.

Thanks, Girlie. Is there anything else you would add to target the infection? I tried Andrographis and it did not like me. I am trusting the iboga and a slowly strengthening immune system to take care of the Lyme, even if it takes me a year or two. My body is SO delicate after 10 years of mayhem that I want to be as careful as possible and not "wake the beast," if you get what I mean.

Hmmm, 60 days of Babs treament was what Buhner suggested, but something tells me you're right and I should continue... I'm still barely walking right now.

I never tested positive for Bartonella, only Lyme and Babesia.

I was only responding to the comments on that being 'a lot of herbs' to be taking. Many of those herbs are for support/symptom reduction/detox - so just pointing that out.

You don't need to add add more antibacterial/antimicrobia right away......there's no rush..see how you do on this for awhile. you don't want to set yourself up for a crazy herx.
Make sure you get a good detox plan going.

I'm not sure why Buhner says 60 days of Babs treatment. That's definitely not long enough.

When you are ready - You might want to consider adding in Sida Acuta ...and maybe bidens pilosa (starting at very low doses) - they are part of Buhner's babesia protocol.
Posted 1/14/2018 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
I've seen where Buhner stated either 30 or 60 days for Babesia treatments and was questioned on it - and he then clarified that it was meant that was the minimum amount of time for treatments, and if the person was not symptom free that they should continue on - all the herbs used in that protocol are safe to use long term (Note - this does not include arteminisin).
Posted 1/16/2018 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you everyone!

Girlie- Yes, I am starting to SLOWLY add sida acuta and Andrographis. Very powerful herbs and very easy to herx on them.

I hope to do babs treatment until I feel better enough to stop.

PeteZa- My body seemed to react poorly to Red Sage and Skullcap. Red Sage makes my tendons feel very weak and vulnerable, and I get itchy. It's uncomfortable. And skullcap... I don't remember why I don't like it, but I remember that I don't.

I am sure there are many other plants, fungi, and animals that can serve as cytokine remodulators, yes?

Question for all- putting a little fresh lemon juice in these herbs won't hurt any of them, right? With the acidity? It just makes it go down muuuch easier.

Much love to you all!
Posted 10/18/2020 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
Hi "Rhythm,"


I noticed your post about iboga, and I am wondering how much you took and if you think it really helped with babesia. I don't have a proper babesia diagnosis, but I was diagnosed with Lyme years ago. I have used iboga seven times (during different ceremonies) and each time it completely ERASED my symptoms, which are shortness of breath and muscle weakness. I burped and belched for hours like a dragon, and then I could breathe normally and my muscle strength returned. Unfortunately the relief lasted only 3-5 days and then my symptoms returned. I think that iboga has an impact on infectious diseases. Were you taking flood doses of iboga, or just microdoses? I would love to know more about your experience because I believe that understanding the mechanism of iboga may be a key to my healing. Again, I have been tested for babesia, but tests have been negative. At least the igenex one was. But I have heard that there are always false negatives.

Thank you!
Posted 10/18/2020 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
thanks for sharing what is working for you

I am not alarmed by the number of herbs at all - I don't think Buhner would be either - especially as you have multiple infections / long chronic illness

his full protocol for Lyme in the 2nd edition book is very long - and more herbs are then added to it dependent on symptoms

that same book also states the desired dose for a 150lb person is around 30g a day so - again I don't see anything excessive in your Knotweed dose. ( 30g is a lot of teaspoons - I weighed it out!)
you could perhaps just eat 30g ( eg 10g 3x a day ) and save yourself some trouble ( that is Buhners preferred method)
but more power to you for finding a path that works.

i am on a similar number of herbs - closely fully following Buhners latest book and I am also improving ( Lyme with suspected Bart for approx 6 years)

the following are also in my plan and i believe they have been significant for me
-Chinese Skullcap
-Salvia M / Dan Shen
-Cordyceps

i have only added one herb at a time to understand how my body responds to it.
this takes time and some of the things that help most are the ones that initially make me feel the worst so it certainly is a puzzle to work it out.

acc to Buhner - very few herbs interact badly and they can usually all be mixed freely - as a general rule - he usually says only to watch out for the ones that have strongly opposite effects in large doses - eg on blood pressure or such like.

they can all be added to lemon or fruit juice acidity is not a problem ( the stomach has much stronger acid in it )
Posted 10/18/2020 8:56 PM (GMT 0)

Catalina R said...
Hi "Rhythm,"


I noticed your post about iboga, and I am wondering how much you took and if you think it really helped with babesia. I don't have a proper babesia diagnosis, but I was diagnosed with Lyme years ago. I have used iboga seven times (during different ceremonies) and each time it completely ERASED my symptoms, which are shortness of breath and muscle weakness. I burped and belched for hours like a dragon, and then I could breathe normally and my muscle strength returned. Unfortunately the relief lasted only 3-5 days and then my symptoms returned. I think that iboga has an impact on infectious diseases. Were you taking flood doses of iboga, or just microdoses? I would love to know more about your experience because I believe that understanding the mechanism of iboga may be a key to my healing. Again, I have been tested for babesia, but tests have been negative. At least the igenex one was. But I have heard that there are always false negatives.

Thank you!

Hi Catalina - welcome to the forum.

If you’d like - you can start a new thread and introduce yourself to the members here.
Posted 10/18/2020 9:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hi there,

Thank you all for your responses. I am curious about Rhythm’s use of Iboga specifically, not the other herbs. See the first post above. Iboga ( a hallucinogenic root bark from central west africa) healed me (temporarily) but because it is considered a schedule 1 drug in the USA, little is known about its healing properties (besides its effect on opioid addiction). Iboga healed me so profoundly that I am trying to figure out exactly what happened. I have never tested positive for Babesia, but I have tested positive for Lyme and Tickborne relapsing Fever. My main symptoms shortness of breath (all the time) and muscle weakness. When I took Iboga (during a ceremony), I belched aggressive, harrowing burps for six hours straight and then I could breathe again and my legs were strong and supple. This happened every time I took it (all six ceremonies). I believe the belches were the result of some bacteria or infection being killed off by Iboga, but I don’t know for sure! Thank you!
Posted 10/19/2020 5:31 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Catalina, thanks for your response! Yeah, psychedelics in general can be really powerful in combating chronic illness. I think they are THE medicine for chronic Lyme--I have heard many people get over their Lyme with sacred plant medicine such as Ayahuasca and the like.

That's great that Iboga helped you in that way. It has helped me in many ways, too, with fatigue, mental clarity, and sometimes joint pain, although not so much that.

I did a major flood dose and a minor flood dose, and lots of microdosing in between. At the peak of the major flood dose, all of my symptoms were gone, but they came back days after. With medicine like this, you really have to listen to/for the lessons and apply them in every day life, or else the cure won't be long-lasting.

Iboga is rather hard-to-find, expensive, and some might argue endangered. I would encourage you to find more ubiquitous medicines to help you with your symptoms, such as Ayahuasca or mushrooms.

It's amazing to me that the most powerful, potent medicines are the ones most countries have banned. What does that say about our society? Having tried both psychedelics and many of Buhner's herbs, it's like Buhner's herbs skirt around the issue while plants like iboga or ayahuasca address them head-on. But they are not for everybody, and not for all occasions. They are sacred, ceremonial medicines and need to be used with care.
Posted 10/19/2020 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Rhythm!

Yes, I agree with you on all accounts. These medicines are sacred and should be used with intention and care, and in most cases, with an experienced facilitator (esp with Iboga). That is very interesting that you had a similar experience of your symptoms being gone at the height of the flood dose. Iboga is very much a mind medicine, so I have spent many, many a ceremony asking questions to it about how to move forward. I wish the answers were so simple.

I have worked with psilocybin quite a bit and lived in the Amazon for months learning from ayahuasca and other tradition Amazonian plants. I have participated in over 50 aya ceremonies and while the emotional healing was incredibly helpful and deep, it didn’t (and psilocybin didn’t) have nearly the same impact as Iboga on my physical symptoms.

I agree that Iboga is endangered, but for me that is not the only reason to not take it. My experience with seven different flood doses was just too physically harrowing to continue. I mean, the lessons for the soul were profound for me, but I can’t justify continuing it when the physical impact was so harrowing and my symptoms returned.

I am seven months into bee venom therapy, and while I haven’t seen much change with that yet, I will likely do it for a least a year to see.

Thanks!
Caitlin
Posted 10/19/2020 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
I also tried bee venom therapy, and it didn't much at all except for increasing my fight-or-flight feelings on any given day. Not ideal. And pins and needles in my fingers. Gets the heart pumping, but that's about it (for me).

Have you tried Salvia? Chewing, that is. Salvia and iboga both share kappa-opioid agonism, which isn't shared by the other medicines you've tried. I've found chewing Salvia to be clearing in terms of mind and energy, and helps a little bit with joint mobility, too. Lasts an hour instead of 72, too!!!
Posted 10/19/2020 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Very Interesting about the salvia! Can you recommend a good source? what is the experience like? I have heard many crazy stories from friends about their salvia experiences, but there were taking large doses, I imagine.

I am feeling bummed about my experience with BVT so far, but I want to stick with it for a while longer -- at least a year -- to see if there's any progression. I am 42 now and I have had Lyme (and other cos) likely for 25 years, so it's likely that it's buried deep in the tissues and lymphatic system. How long did you do BVT?

The only other thing I have tried that really really helped is stinging nettle urtication. I was living with a shaman in the Sacred Valley in Peru in 2017 and she "whipped" my legs with wild stinging nettles that were found high up on the mountain. After this, for two days I could breathe normally and my leg weakness disappeared. I have tried taking nettle pills while in the US, but I didn't notice a difference. But I might try the nettle "flogging" again come spring time (I live in Colorado) if I can get my hands on the plants and see if the flogging helps. I only tried the urtication that one time, and haven't tried it since. At the time, I didn't realize that it was what had likely helped me. The relief lasted about two days and it was incredible. I couldn't believe it. I hiked a mountain and felt great.

I did use a lot of coca leaf (as a powder mixed in water) while I was in Peru, and that helped tremendously with energy (mental and physical), but it didn't "erase" my symptoms like iboga and the nettles did! I used it for several years (even in the US) but it wasn't a cure. It helped for a few hours in the morning, but didn't change my symptoms.
Posted 10/19/2020 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
And I asked about the sourcing of salvia above because I understand it is legal in the USsmile
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