Did you had to lower dose abx, after two years or more treatment?

As the topic shows, after almost 3 years of pulsed abx treatment, my herxheimer symptoms got much much worse, that it was a year before. I was taking 200mg doxy 2x day plus Cefixime 400mg 2xday and tindamax.
Now on one of this days, i tried to take the first day doses and after 5 hours i started to have severe dizziness almost to pass out and symptoms got much worse. So i stopped there, waited 3 days and today i took the first doses and the symptoms are starting to flare again. I am hesitant on taking the second doses, not sure if i will. Did this happen to anyone of you?

Thanks

My pulsed schedule is the Dr. J scheme. But i cant handle it, sometimes i have to stop for 3 days in a row. And now i cant handle the second doses of the day. And yes i am herxing from it. My head jerks get more violent, my fingers twitches crazy. And the pain on the lateral sides of my head get worst. My feet also in pain to. So i dont know how this fits on keeping the bacteria in check or not. I am taking cistus and nac just in case to avoid the infection to get its way

Dont have much of a choice If i push it too much i will pass out

One think is for sure i am using cistus incanus almost without no interruptions. And what i know is that it is stronger than many abx, with a difference that it kills bacteria on the stationary phase and at the same time it decreases the activity or production of inflammatory cytokines wish in turn causes herxheimer reactions.
A most plus is that it has anti-biofilm effects and ability to cross the blood-brain barrier. If it was not for cistus i would be gone by now.

https://www.lymedisease.org/seven-herbals-kill-lyme-disease/

The study found that seven of these natural product extracts at 0.25%-0.5%(CISTUS WAS ONE OF THESE TESTED) had better activity against the stationary phase B. burgdorferi culture than the control antibiotics doxycycline and cefuroxime, both of which are commonly used to treat Lyme disease.

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 11/7/2020 3:03:35 PM (GMT-7)

Dmitry said...
did you experience any health gains in parallel with decreased tolerance to abx?
This also could be explained by more healthy immune system now(with decreased bacterial load)

Good point Dmitry. I indeed am better than i was a year ago and i did not thought about that possibility, since Dr. J in his talks is always saying "Until your immune systems takes over". He said that in the documentary Under Our Skin to a patient.

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 11/7/2020 4:21:27 PM (GMT-7)

Lena said...
Is anyone taking JK Plus and Red Sage, both antimicrobials...? Herxing, body pain, horrible temple pain on 18 drops (combined) in am and 16 drops (combined) in pm.

I’m not taking those - but if I were you, I’d drop your dose down significantly OR stop for a few days and then restart on a lesser amount - like 12 or 14 drops.

Maybe the problem is more the immune system and not so much the bugs? I think after years of abx you've killed all you're gonna kill...

potsnpans said...
Maybe the problem is more the immune system and not so much the bugs? I think after years of abx you've killed all you're gonna kill...

That’s what I’m trying to figure out now.
It’s been over 3 months (I think 4 months) since I last took abx.
I just started on a cycle a couple days ago - and I’m paying attention to my symptoms - if I herx.. or not.

What, if anything changes.

Girlie: Definitely interested in hearing how you fare after 3 months off. Please update when you're ready to!

potsnpans: i did not tried buhners herbs most of them are tinctures and i cannot take any alcohol.
When things go bad i use 200mg valproic acid wish is a powerfull anti cytokine med and it works. But i use it only at SOS.
I started abx on 2018 but i had to stop several months because i could not handle it, only from 2019 i started to tolerate abx better.

WalkingbyFaith: i always took cistus, but i did not tolerate more than a cup for one year. Now i can take 2 to 3 cups.

it may be strange to say, but after 3 years when i move my head i feel click and cracks inside my head like if tiny desintegrated pieces of some kind of debris inside my head are moving inside.

My fingers twitch when i take abx or cistus my head jerks to the back, i am tired of this, in the morning i feel worst. I know immune system is more active in the morning. Its like something in my body is trying to fight me and kill me.

Most of Buhner's herbs can be sourced in powdered form if you want to try that.

Interesting that valproate is also a cytokine inhibitor. I remember user Quin saying it was a powerful antimicrobial...

I haven't seen 'Under Our Skin'

Girlie: yes, Mandy i remember her, she had seen more than 50 doctors wish were useless and said "it was all in her head", but instead "it was all on that ignorant doctors heads" not hers. She had seizures from lyme and got saved by Dr. J.

postpans: you can still find the documentary in google video search. its the second video in this search, i thing. Very good to see:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22under+our+skin+documentary%22&tbm=vid&source=lnt&tbs=dur:l&sa=x&ved=0ahukewifmadz_p7sahwc5-akhusuao0qpwuijq&biw=726&bih=458&dpr=1.25

yes valproate is a powerfull immune modulator and antimicrobial too.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16192836/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00109-018-1722-x
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnmol.2018.00117/full

it was suggested recently by researchers in india and Canada to be repurposed for covid19 for its direct antiviral and immunomodulatory effects:

https://www.crstonline.com/article.asp?issn=2590-3233;year=2020;volume=3;issue=5;spage=65;epage=70;aulast=bhargava

https://clinmedjournals.org/articles/ijrpm/international-journal-of-respiratory-and-pulmonary-medicine-ijrpm-7-138.php?jid=ijrpm

I am also taking gabapentin, wish is anticytokine too every day to curb the neuro pain and feet pain:
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/mmr.2017.7368
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3565145/

So in terms of immunomodulation i have this powerfull tools wish help me for now.

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 11/13/2020 12:04:21 AM (GMT-7)

Yeah, I think Jordan Fisher Smith (Park Ranger) treated for closer to 8 or 9 years. He talks about a period where every time he would stop abx, symptoms would come right back within a couple of weeks. This went on and on. He just kept treating until the symptoms stayed away for good and never returned. In 2009 there was a facebook post where he posted an update stating he was in remission. I don't have facebook so can't view it, but if you google something like "Jordan Fisher Smith Lyme Update Facebook" I'm sure you can find it (for those that have facebook).

Also, regarding lengthy abx treatments and success stories, lets not forget about the pediatric lyme dr. out of CT, Dr. C.R. Jones. Below is a great interview where he mentions how long kids take to get better. He mentions most kids get completely better after treating anywhere from 3 months to 17 years. Yes, 17 years! So yes, you can continue to kill lyme bacteria even after years of ongoing treatment. Stating lyme treatment is a marathon is an understatement.

https://lymeconnection.org/support_and_resources/meet_the_lyme_disease_experts.html/title/dr-charles-ray-jones-straight-talk-with-a-fearless-pediatrician-