Gastro/ sibo detectives

Post Edited (Lightlife) : 12/9/2020 7:13:01 AM (GMT-7)

dcd2103 said...
Also, i was thinking last night about how probiotics taken orally arent ideal. Firstly, they can often be destroyed by the stomach acid before they even reach the colon. Second, they can potentially colonize the small intestine, causing complications.

So i looked up probiotic enemas, and its actually a thing. I may experiment with this at some point. Has anyone tried it?

Garzie said...
I think some people do DIY FMT that way too - anyone got a blender and syringe I can borrow

Garzie said...
I think some people do DIY FMT that way too - anyone got a blender and syringe I can borrow

Lightlife said...
So I am trying to get to root of one of my issues. I've posted about this before and some have said sounds like Sibo.

I'm having a test mailed to me but have a question. Wondering if a couple things that go on negate the possibility of sibo.
There's a few things that happen which leads me to question weather it fits the bill.


What I do have:
The burping feeling ill for hours. In am after I wake them usually another afternoon bought of it. Lasts hours ... kind of nauseous / ill feeling and crazy burps that are deep and seem to come from upper gi for no reason.

And often heartburn in am but not in past week.
( And Brain fog. Anx/ Dep./etc )



Here's a couple things give me pause on this.

1) last several days I have extreme yawning at 3 pm. Then I get the sickly burping thing after for a couple hours. So yawning and burping sometimes come as a pair.

2) I have no constipation, diarrhea, uncomfortable abdominal sensations or other gastro issues except the burping ill feeling lasting hours ( and bloating) .

3) I wake up and don't eat at all and I still get the " sickly" and trapped gas, guttural belching. So no food before and still get..

4) I eat carbs and whatever else for dinner, biggest meal of day for me and I don't get it anytime after that. So never in evening hours after dinner.


With those things happening can this still be sibo.

Extras... Can your body auto correct sibo with just diet?

Astro if u read. Is sibo what you recvomended limone for? Or was that heartburn.

Thankyou everyone for widdling away for me. I would be lost without y'all. Hope your day was a better one.

Garzie said...
a lot of questions there and I'm afraid i don't know all the answers - but I will chip in with anything that might be useful/relevant.

from my reading around functional medicine - there are studies which show about 10% of the population have SIBO and most don't know it - many have no gastrointestinal symptoms - but may have systemic symptoms or none at all - so lack of gastro symptoms does not rule it out.

typically though SIBO does react to carbs though - so that seems a bit unusual - but it's all linked in with immune function - which is the mechanism by which SIBO gives most symptoms - and also which bugs are overgrown / in the wrong place - and this can drive differences in symptoms - eg methane-producing organisms vs hydrogen-producing organisms.

once the gut is inflamed / out of balance, the list of possible symptoms is endless - immune modulated effects can occur anywhere in the body and may not seem linked to anything obvious, hair, skin joint, pain issues etc
hormonal disruption can then cause a further layer of issues
liver, gall bladder, pancreas issues triggered by the digestive system being out of whack can be added to the mix
this inflammation or immune modulated effects can take place days after the offending trigger and seem very hard to associate with any particular food or mealtime.
etc etc

most experts believe it cannot be corrected with diet alone - but some degree of symptom relief can be usually be obtained by diet modification - eg removing all fermentable foods.
mainly carbs. eg FODMAP diets. low carb diets etc

then there is the underlying cause of the SIBO that needs to be addressed - this is something that is still quite poorly understood. research is ongoing - but it seem in many this is due to some kind of damage to the nervous system of the gut affects its ability to control its own movement ( gastroparesis ) and its microbiome.

because its notoriously hard to treat many people find themselves of very restrictive diets for long periods of time - which are not conducive to long terms health and may in fact help perpetuate the illness - however as the cause is so poorly understood and re-occurrence after treatment common - its easy to understand why.

Dr Mark Pimental is the leading expert in this field who is doing leading-edge fundamental research into the condition. - some good podcasts on the subject can be found on Chris Kresser RHR podcast.

in functional medicine circles, it is quite well documented that people who fail standard treatments for SIBO ( rifaximin or herbal protocols ) have some deeper root cause.
Lyme disease is one of the things on that list of deeper root causes - along with things like heavy metals, mold illness, etc

this is actually the route that i came to back to a Lyme diagnosis from as i had many gut issues and failed a comprehensive 12-week SIBO / Dysbiois protocol and went for further Lyme testing and tested positive ( previously only C6 ELISA - negative )

all of the above is quite well documented in the research on the subject

my own view and that supported by some of the discussions on the forum here is that, in line with the functional medicine view of SIBO, Lyme basically hobbles the bodies ability to manage its own microbiome and digestive system and as a result stubborn digestive system symptoms including SIBO, food intolerances, digestive disturbances, systemic inflammation and a myriad of other symptoms.

the mechanism or mechanisms is/are not fully known - but there is some evidence that the Lyme bacteria and possibly some of the co-infections damage or block the signaling pathways the body uses to control microbes in the gut and this could be at the root of the symptoms.
additional researchers report profound microcirculation changes in chronically infected tissues and - it is the microcirculation that is vital to the villi of the small intestine and it is easy to imagine disruption of this would likely impact gut function in a number of ways.

lastly, the systemic inflammation in Lyme is responsible for the disturbance of a large number of the body's systems and processes and this is likely to play a part.

after failing a very thorough and long gut protocol for SIBO - my partner ( who also has Lyme ) and i decided to try a full ketogenic and paleo diet as a last resort (we were already paleo but at that time still ate starchy tubers like sweet potatoes and some fruit).

The results were amazing - it has undoubtedly helped all symptoms more than any previous treatment or supplement including antibiotics. in my partner's case it was amazing - she went from struggling to walk 3 miles to running 3 miles inside a week of starting.

if i were you i would try a ketogenic Paleo-style diet for 3-4weeks as a trial - as a zero cost and safe approach.

failing that you could do
- a SIBO breath test (probably about 70% accurate at detecting SIBO if you do sucralose and test for methane and hydrogen)
- the great plains OAT test to look for fungal and bacterial overgrowth markers
- a comprehensive stool panel with parasitology and inflammation markers to check for gut health.
it sounds like a lot - but it's what the best Functional doctors do - as none of the available tests are perfect and it gives several different ways of looking at the gut to give a more reliable way of figuring out what might be going on.

finally, H-Pylori can cause burping, acid reflux, and a host of other gut symptoms - not always classical - so may be worth getting tested for that.
also, Bartonella is known to be the second most common cause of Gastritis - after H-Pylori acc to the ILADS Lyme treatment guidelines so it may be worth investigating that.

not a short list to go at or a simple subject i'm afraid