Astragalus good or bad response?

Hi! I'm new in this forum I don't speak fluent English so maybe there will be some mistakes on the posts. I have been diagnosed with Lyme due to a bull's eye rush in August 2020 I've been asymptomatic until taking amoxicillin (I'm breastfeeding) I had mostly neurological symptoms. Then I started taking cat's claw, kontweed and eleuthero. Most of my symptoms disappeared but then some new ones started. So I have read a lot about astragalus and decided to try it. First 2 days I felt really good. Floaters, blurry vision, feet pain and tinnitus were really much better (I have tinnitus and floaters since I was 14yo) than before using it. But some of my first symptoms that I had reappeared (muscle pain, muscle spasms, some numbness in different parts of my body) I lowered the doses and again floaters and feet pain started. (Could it be Bartonella?) I don't know what should I do. Could my first symptoms come out again because of a die off? Or am I chronic and it's my immune system ? I think my symptoms are mild.

Thank you so much for the answer! I will try to and let see what happens. Also, it is normal in early lyme stage to symptoms go away and new ones appearing? I'm really confused. I don't know if the herbs are working or not. I'm only 1 month and half on treatment.

Thank you so much for answering! What happens to me is that I'm really afraid to ruin the progress that I was making in the past months. I took 200mg of astragalus today and I had a really quick response from my body. Numbness, brain fog... I'm afraid that it will only go worse. How do you know if it's working for you? Right now I'm feeling like when I was starting taking amoxicilin 5 months ago.

“Also, it is normal in early lyme stage to symptoms go away and new ones appearing”

- This is a hallmark of Lyme/coinfections. It’s also one of the reasons people like me go undiagnosed for so long. People (and their doctors) tend to ignore their symptoms until they return or new ones appear and may not realize they are caused from Lyme/coinfections.

Yes. It is common for new symptoms to appear while on treatment. I had been sick for almost 8 years before I started any treatment. I used Buhner’s herbal protocol. I experienced lots of new symptoms I had never had before after I started treating with herbs.

i have been experimenting with Astragalus for the last couple of weeks and thought i would add my experiences to this thread.

firstly the reasons for trying it:
i have Lyme and suspected Bart - and maybe mycoplasma pn. according to one test result.
i know Astragalus can be contraindicated in chronic lyme - but i was interested to try it anyway for the reasons below
generally the things that have helped me most are things that help balance the immune system
-ketogenic diet
-Buhners lyme modulating herbs
-LDN
-sleep
-exercise etc
i have also read accounts where people found they could tolerate astragalus as they started to recover - but not in the early years - and this fits my situation - approx. 50% recovered as of now.
astragalus as i understand it is know to increase the activity of the inate immune system - that is the part that typically addresses intracellular infections - eg bart and mycoplasma - so if it is tolerated it would seem to be a good fit.
i also believe that getting our immune system functioning well is key to finally resolving these infections - and astragalus is so well documented to help the body fight intracellular infections i thought it well worth a go.
i did actually try it around 2 years ago - I found it gave me quite a strong reaction almost straight away - increased body aches and pains - fatigue and sore head ( some of my main symptoms)
that trial was at 1ml of tincture (40 drops ) 4x a day - and it was around this time that i received my first positive lyme test and thought i should probably stop the trial to be on the safe side.

so this time i thought i would try a much smaller dose to see if i could tolerate it as part of my ongoing routine - and that this might help speed my recovery along as - although i am improving its by only a fraction each month and i am concerned about running out of money before i can work again.
i tried 10 drops 4x for a week - which was fine
i had some unexpected results i thought i would share

1. my skin got noticeably worse - i have been getting a lot of little pustules on my arms and legs recently - and these seem to increase as i increase treatment with bart herbs and then MB - but also as my overall health returns - so for me it seems to be associated with recovery - i tend to connect it to Bart which is known to live in teh skin and cause lots of odd rashes - not just streaks

2, my sleep improved - i woke a couple of times feeling noticeably fresher - and a slept a bit longer on 2 or 3 nights in teh week since starting it than i am usually able to - sleep has been a big problem area for me - and i really wasn't expecting any impact on it from astragalus - but it is welcome as again as my sleep improves so does my overall functioning and i feel its actually a key lever to pull to drive my recovery

3, i was able to do my best workout for months - just a bit more than usual - but still a positive sign - as fatigue and all over pain have been preventing exercise beyond walking for much of my illness.

so it was almost all good - but i did also have a couple of days where i felt i was overall more achy than usual - and maybe a slightly more sore head - but all within the limits of normal variations from day to day for me.

this was actually more positive than i was expecting - but also not truly definitive due to the relatively small changes in signs - so i decided to try increasing the dose to see it if could get a clearer signal as to what was going on - and stepped up from 10 drops 4x to 20 drops 4x or half the dose i tried in 2019

within a day i had much more noticeable effects
all over body aching definitely increased, headache increased moderately, my daily walks were slower, i felt more fatigued and was able to get less done in the day - but was still able to make myself do a workout despite feeling pretty rough, and my sleep again increased noticeably - sleeping for nearly 9hrs on one occasion - which is unheard of for me.

so at least the signal seems clear - potential benefits to sleep, and signs that its increasing my bodies ability to tackle infection - but also increased fatigue and body aches and headaches at the higher doses especially.

i am now in a bit of a quandary as to whether i should try to continue at the higher dose - which is bearable - just a bit frustrating feeling achy and slowed down in the day - but may be due to my body clearing infection - and could potentially improve over time
or
ease back to the comfortable 10 drops 4x dose and just cruise at that for the long term hoping its enough to be doing some good.

i'm tempted to try sticking to the higher dose for at least a month in the hope that it could move me forward a useful step - but there is no sign if it easing after 1 week and so it could just be a month of pain for no gain

anyway - thought it might be of interest to others here to hear my experience

please do feel free to chip in.

This is so great to hear Garzie, that it's helping.
I hope 10 drops will still be helpful for you.

Realistically, what do you think the chances of triggering an autoimmune response would be?
And do you think that would be permanent?

When you say sleep has improved, do you mean you wake up less?

Please keep us posted on how it goes, I enjoy reading your updates.

an update on my astragalus experiment

after 36 days total - most of that at only 10 drops 4x - i have decided to stop the astragalus trial

although sleep was somewhat improved - workouts were still good - fatigue has been higher since starting, my walks slower, and i am able to do less in the day than before and body aches and all over pain are definitely increased - with no signs of this worsening ending.

then a little over a week ago things got noticeably worse - sleep suddenly declines - body pain increased - fatigue increased further, the amount i could do in a day dropped by around 30% and i generally felt worse / more ill.
a few times - i also noticed a slight sore throat / nasal passages - similar to what i would get before coming down with a cold - but i haven't had a cold since getting ill 6.5yrs ago - in any case it was mild and would only last a morning. but this happened a few times.

i tried to tough it out for a while longer - but pain and discomfort all over especially at night was the most problematic symptom and was impacting my sleep so much it was just unsustainable.

this is a surprise to me as 10drops 4x seemed tolerable for several weeks - and then things suddenly worsened. whereas for me reactions to most herbs and medications are pretty clear within 2-3days max - so something having such a delayed effect is unusual for me.

there is still a chance this is a flare not caused by astragalus - but i have made very few other changes in the same time frame - and looking into those they seem less likely to be the cause
- i changed one of my regular vegetables from green beans - which some say can be problematic with gut issues - to broccoli spear - which show no signs of upsetting my digestion after eating
- i tried a trial of tudca 250mg 2x/day last week as i had a little liver area discomfort - but i have taken the same supplement before without ill effects - so this also looks unlikely

my overall routine has changed very little so i am struggling to see what else could have caused a flare - so astragalus seems the most likely option - only the delayed timing and the slight sore throat do not fit well. the rest was worsening of all my usual symptoms

the only other thing that comes to mind is a virus -
i did visit my brother 2 days before things started to decline and found out that his daughter had contracted COVID a few days before - and later tested PCR positive.
i was with my brother in the garden for a few hours - he was tested PCR negative a few days later
- and i only went inside the house for 2minutes to use the bathroom - so this is possible but also unlikley

so i don't quite know what to think.
i am a little disappointed that the astragalus isn't for me - i was initially encouraged by with the improved sleep and workouts - and the prospect that it might help the immune system recover

thought i would share my experiences here to help others as its a tricky herb to use in lyme and comes up quite often.
based on this i would say by all means try it as it may well still work for some - even in chronic Lyme
but i would suggest:
-use low doses - perhaps 1/4 of typical recommended doses in non-lyme cases
-keep everything else in your regime the same for the duration of the trial to avoid confounding the trial
-watch for worsening symptoms even after a delay of weeks

yeah - its definitely a possibility

i did a lateral flow test the first day i had a sore throat - 2-3 days after visiting my brothers - negative
and another 2 days later - also negative

however the lateral flow test sensitivity is known to be relatively low if you don't have symptoms - i think they measure a viral protein directly though - so don't relay on he human immune system making antibodies - more just the viral load. hard to know what that might be doing in someone with lyme and a non-typical immune response.

i have heard that in CFS/ME people often do not get colds/ flu either - but just get worsening symptoms of fatigue etc

i considered booking a PCR test - but after reading up it seems the sensitivity of those peaks on day 4 or 5 after infection and drops to near nothing after 10 days - so very little point at this time - more than 13 days since possible exposure