What is a reputable lab to get tested

Other than Igenix - is there any other lab that can confirm a bartonella or lyme diagnosis? That wont give a false negative? Andi s trustworthy?

what do you make of that? Do you think you are actually positive OR negative? Do you think Kaiser's test will be reliable?

Post Edited (Tracyabc2021) : 3/26/2021 4:06:36 PM (GMT-6)

I'm not really sure what to think of it, I always assumed I had Bart or babs or both. I only ever had erlichea positive from igenex before. Sorry not sure what kaiser test is. Does seem strange that galaxy gets more positive results. Whatever it means I think I'd just treat off symptoms more than any test. They seem to be so unreliable

Here are two resources that came to mind:

Dr. Rawls' Complete Guide to Lyme Disease and Coinfection Tests
https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/just-how-reliable-are-lyme-disease-lab-tests

Testing
https://www.betterhealthguy.com/lyme/testing

Galaxy is still the premiere lab for bartonella testing. Detecting bartonella is extremely difficult. This lab has done the most in developing more accurate testing for this hard to detect organism. By accurate, I mean that they have developed testing methods that have a better chance of detecting the organism if it is present - so fewer false negatives as opposed to other labs. They should absolutely have a higher rate of positive test results for bartonella. That’s why they are the premier lab for bartonella testing. It’s not cheap, though. They have different levels of testing. It’s not just one test. The most extensive testing is the most likely to identify bartonella, but it’s also the most expensive because of the involvement of the test.

DNA Connexions has a panel test that looks for Lyme and a number of coinfections. They use PCR analysis, which looks for the DNA of the organisms in your urine sample. There are no false positives, but a negative doesn’t mean you don’t have the infection, only that they didn’t find the DNA for that organism in your sample.

Bartonella article with Dr Ed from Galaxy and Dr M (bart guru) written by BetterHealthGuy. Very detailed article, and one I hadn’t seen before. Found it via the link under Galaxy in the BHG link that Dude posted. Thx, Dude!
https://www.betterhealthguy.com/images/stories/pdf/bartonella_townsend_july_2015.pdf

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 3/27/2021 9:59:41 AM (GMT-6)

bartonella testing is notoriously problematic.

there are multiple issues that lead to very low sensitivity.

the main issue is the very low numbers of organisms in the blood most of the time -
but also the disrupted immune response patients often have interferes with serology type tests
and also there are many many bartonella species - something like 27 at last count - most of which can cause illness in people - and probably more undiscovered ones not yet named - and most tests do not detect more than a few - so you miss a lot of infections this way too.

-overall it looks like standard serology( eg ELISA )antibody type tests are somewhere below 25% sensitive once the condition is chronic ( ie misses around 75% of cases)

- standard PCR is also similarly poor - due to the very low numbers of organisms in the blood most of the time

- galaxy specializes in a multi-stage testing platform - that takes multiple blood draws - then cultures the blood in a special medium - and then runs PCR on the resulting culture. they have recently improved their test once more - and published a paper on the sensitivity - and now claim around 50% - which is the best in the market - and probably why a lot more people test positive at Galaxy than other places. That said 50% is still a very poor test by most disease standards ( most are in the high 90's % for sensitivity - eg AIDs is 99.7% sensitive or something )

-here we start to get into the weeds because its likely that bartonella is actually a very common thing to find in peoples blood, once you have the tools to reliably detect it.

- Igenex have an interesting test also - a western blot for several bartonella species in one assay - because its looking for many of the possible markers of various bartonella species in one test its sensitivity is likely usefully above a standard ELISA - but i have not seen published work to substantiate any sensitivity % number.

the other option - if testing looks too fraught with sensitivity issues - is to go for a therapeutic trial - where Bart targeting antibiotics are given and response monitored to see if worsening then improvement is found - leading to clinical diagnosis.

a nice clear positive test result is of course useful if you get it - and removes a lot of the uncertainty with treatment choices etc - but many people spend the money - get a negative result and end up having to treat based on clinical signs anyway. there are some good resources out there on clinical signs of bartonella vs lyme and Babesia that can help. Burrascano's ILADS guidelines and articles like this one.
https://www.lymedisease.org/co-infections-sorting-out-lyme-burrascano/

i know before getting acquainted with Lyme and co - i assumed all tests simply worked and you could get a nice clear black and white answer - but alas its not so.

Is QUEST considered accurate? I have positive from Igenex and a family member looked into them and doesnt think they may be accurate. My symptoms are many but I dont know what to do. Im doing a QUEST blood today

it was IGM positive and IGG negative - that should mean recent infection but i have NO sign of tick bit or rash or bulls eye etc. I dont want to do wrong thing. I have shallow breathing a lot and my stomach is really screwed up. I just feel scared not to have support of my family and to know if I am making the right decision. I cry all the time cuz Im so scared of hurting myself more.

Doesn’t hurt to try the testing that is covered with your insurance -
But if it’s negative - continue with the testing by Igenex or Armin Labs

Faith: That is exactly correct. So the Bartonella was IGM & IGG positive but the LYME that I JUST got was on IGM positive and IGG negative. Yes my family doesnt know what to think or to believe it. Right now my worst symptoms are mental and my stomach. I took a Quest Labs Lyme test but they just took one vial. Im not sure what to do at this point. Also - the lyme doctors are so expensive and then they only see you like once a month and get back to you sometimes takes a week. I really want to find someone who will be available to talk to me and help me with this. Im leaning towards a round of antiobiotics but I also want to see a gastrointestinal doctor to figure out BEST way to heal my stomach AND I want to boost my immune system. I made an appt with one for 2 weeks away so at least I have one if I cant get it through my HMO who holds back resources. I was thinking of doing those IV vitamin things? Is that smart? My Mom had read not so favorable stuff regarding igenex so I dunno what to do. Since taking something for anxiety - the tingling n stuff has actually stopped and I am feeling better except my stomach is really messed up.

WalkingbyFaith said...
I’m confused. You stated in this post that you tested IgM positive for Lyme through Igenex, but IgG was negative.

I went back and reread your other posts. There, you said you had a positive bartonella test. Was this through Igenex or another lab?

Now you want to test with Quest because your family doesn’t believe the Igenex test results and are not supportive.

You also are unsure because you had no known tick bite or bullseye rash. You have lots of symptoms that could definitely be caused by Lyme or bartonella, but you are just not sure they are actually the cause of your symptoms because your symptoms started after a bad reaction to an SSRI.

Am I following this correctly?

————
EDIT:
In your first post, you said, “ I think I must have had this for long time dormant and Only symptom was mild rug burn feeling in skin. I had a bad reaction to ssri I took to help with once in a while panic attacks that exploded to me now in bad shape! The main issue is the debilitating anxiety and insomnia.”

So, before you got really bad off, you had a mild rug burn feeling in skin. Did you start taking the ssri because you were having “once in a while panic attacks”? When did you first experience panic attacks or anxiety?

Anxiety and panic attacks themselves can be caused by various tick borne infections.

There are many people who have a host of symptoms that are common with tick borne diseases and have a positive test result who never had a known tick bite or a bullseye rash. There are also many people who started off with a mild symptom or two or three who later developed debilitating symptoms. That is also very common with tick borne diseases.

Thanks Faith, I am waiting to work with an ND as I was with someone but its not working out - I want to work with someone who can answer all my questions and be available. Good news is I can SLEEP right now and its helping a lot. Im also running tests on my gut as its really messed up and could be BART but could also have other infections. We are going to run the tests again though to be thorough - because antibiotics and treatment can be harsh on your body and I just want to make sure I am doing the right thing. We also found mold in our house (had a pro come out) quite a bit, like our entire downstairs in the walls and floor.....I just want to get through this so bad in one piece and mt sanity is the most important piece of course. Apppt with GU coming up soon too - hoping he can at least let me know how bad the damage is. I just pray every day and tell my body it is strong enough to heal.

We are staying out of the downstairs (space affected) - but the mold samples came back as normal - we asked and because we run AIR filters (purifiers) constantly. The mold inspector said even though we turned them off for one day that could easily be why its low. I have a urine toxins report out now. So youre saying BART can cause GI issues? I saw a gastrointestinal doctor and he told me that lyme and bart do not cause GI issues. I felt very unheard at my appointment and scared cuz my stomach and right side hurt and I left feeling like.....I dont know what to do.