more gut thoughts

So I came across two different podcasts. Each of the guys struck me as a little sharper than the rest. Most guys take the broad-brush approach, antimicrobials, probiotics, diet. Both of these guys seemed pretty sharp in that they had a little more nuanced understanding of whats goin on down there than I'd heard elsewhere. Both worth a listen to:

https://feedmephoebe.com/prebiotics-probiotics-sibo-treatment-jason-hawrelak/
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=631553814128544&ref=watch_permalink

In addition, this guy is pretty good as well, informed website on what pathogens tend to cause SIBO and how to treat it:

https://www.byronherbalist.com.au/bacterial-infection/imbalanced-gut-flora/

But I noticed 3 common themes among the 3 of them.

1.) Pre-biotics are definitely good for most cases of SIBO, and PHGG seems to be the preferred pre-biotic for crowding out the bad guys

2.) Increasing motility is extremely beneficial. Adding bitters to your diet before bed is an easy way to do this.

3.) All probiotics are not created equal, and the probiotic strain L Reuteri dsm 17938 is one strain that is particularly beneficial for SIBO. Two guys specifically mentioned new thinking on this specific strain and its benefits. Apparently it's just very efficient at lowering the pH to knock out bad guys, promote an environment for the good guys to flourish and take back space.

You can only find it in one supplement out there.

https://www.biogaia.com/product-country/biogaia-gastrus-usa-4/

And the CFU in the supplement is quite low. So it sounds like there's a whole following of people who make their own pro-biotic yogurst out of this stuff to increase CFU count and its pretty easy to do and quite beneficial. I'm going to try it.

https://blog.undoctored.com/l-reuteri-yogurt/

In addition, a couple of the websites mentioned another probiotic I have been talking about, Nissle1917/mutaflor. After doing more research it really does seem like most probiotics are cr@p. You have no idea what strains theyre putting in them and what they do. It's strain specific, you need a strain that does something specific that youre trying to accomplish (prokinetic, antimicrobial, etc), and the BioGaia and Mutaflor are two that continue to come highly recommended.

I tried diet alone and it wasnt enough. I do wonder if i had been using proper pre-biotics to grow back the good guys and some of these benefical strains like L Reuteri if i would have had a different result. I'm trying the PHGG now which seems to be helping, and will be making the l reuteri yogurt. At some point soon will have to roll up the sleeves and go back on a restrictive diet as well.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 5/6/2021 6:30:27 AM (GMT-6)

Hey pots...so i have been out of ketosis for about 1.5m. Was in it for just about 6m.

Basically while I was in ketosis I had decreased burning/autoimmunity. I still had pain and buzzing, which I've come to realize is related to the autonomic nervous system damage. But overall I was pretty good. This nerve stuff is so complex.

I was fine when i came off until about 2 weeks ago, at which point the SIBO came roaring back and I got increased burning and neuropathy when that happened. So clearly I ate somethign or whatever that just grew the bad bacteria back, and with it I had an uptick of symptoms. Since then I've tried to clean the diet up and went on rifaxamin and things seem to be calming down, but I'm looking for ways to fix this gut problem for good. It really does seem to be a huge problem for me and whether or not its the cause of my autoimmunity, just a trigger for autoimmunity, or actually a symptom of the autoimmunity, is anyone's guess, but there does seem to be a correlation there.

Edit: Basically, i think the decrease in autoimmune symptoms comes from the downregulation of inflammation in the stomach that ketosis produces. Processed food is inflammatory. In addition, so is SIBO. Bad bacteria just upregulates inflammation. You can feel it when you have SIBO, your stomach feels like a ball of inflammation.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 5/6/2021 7:02:09 AM (GMT-6)

dcd when you take Rifaximin do you take it alone ? My doc just prescribed it for me but a couple of years ago I took it with neomycin...since I am more sibo C than sibo D. Being celiac puts me at added risk for this so it is an ongoing struggle. Haven’t tried Keto... not sure I could handle it!

Was one of the sites that mentioned mutaflor the cfsremission guy? I’ve been diving into this area as well. My symptoms all started in the gut and progressed from there. So I got to thinking.. what if it could be fixed from the gut in a way I’m missing.

That cfsremission site has an AI software the supposedly can fix symptoms from a microbiome test by recommended how to correct the imbalances. I ordered the thryve gut test he recommended. Figured it can’t hurt. I almost ordered some mutaflor but I’ve read about people altering their biome in the wrong direction so for $80 I think it’s best to test first

Are you in Canada or Germany? Or did you just get it shipped from one of the two?

https://cfsremission.com/

Here’s the site if you’re curious. Hit the “my story” tab on the side. He relapsed 4 times over 40 years and found his microbiome strategy to work for him.

Have you experimented with ox bile? I’ve found that to cause GI discomfort / bloating. I’m not sure if it’s just irritating or if there’s a SIBO die off happening. Seems to be some mixed opinions around this from my research.

dcd thanks for your reply..definitely think I will be adding the neomycin to the Rifaximin...I lucked out and my doctor was able to give me 2 weeks worth of samples so I didn’t have to spend$$$$$$ on Rifaximin...Just did some reading about Antratil..will probably give that a try. Appreciate your suggestions!

I would love to try Suramin. Too bad we cant get our hands on it. Anyone know of a way?

I've done Parawellness, great test. He found yeast and blasto in there.

Did the mutaflor help you garzie? When did you try it I didn’t realize you had. Do you still use it?

Very interesting, sounds like my experience.

I currently plan on making l Reuteri yogurt, just waiting for the machine to arrive ($69).

This one also comes highly recommended like mutaflor and is similarly antipathogenic. Hoping I can tolerate this one better than mutaflor. It’s about finding one that works for you I guess. Will keep you posted

I do think the PHGG is helping as my stomach has been calmer since starting. Was even able to stop the rifaximin after 6 days only

actually i have tried PHGG before - but only as part of a sibo/dysbiosis herbal protocol

acc to Chris Kresser and some articles he posted - sibo treatment success rates were slightly higher when feeding the gut bacteria some easy to digest ( for them) foods as they are more susceptible to antimicrobials ( herbs and abx) when feeding and growing rapidly and he recommended PHGG - at least that what his studies pointed to and claimed the responses in the clinic were following that pattern too.

i think all i recall at the time was more tummy gurgling and overall no change or slightly more flaring of symptoms - but was taking a lot of sibo type herbs - berberine etc etc at the time and those things were flaring symptoms so hard to tell. added this some way through a 12 week gut dysbiosis program - but never got to the other side where symptoms are supposed to subside - just ongoing flare.

that was mid 2016 - probably 18montsh after getting ill - so things could be different now - or maybe taking it on its own as a prebiotic could be good for me - rather than as an adjunct to a gut dysbiosis treatment.

my recent changes have taken some powdered herb out and added more tincture in - and as a result my fibre intake is down maybe 10g a day - so i would like to find something fibre or resistance starch or the like that i can tolerate

Post Edited (Garzie) : 5/8/2021 10:09:10 AM (GMT-6)

Dcd, did you ever try doing enemas using bacterias from probiotic capsules..?

I did it a couple of times. I do feel it is working somewhat. It seems to increase my appetite a bit...

actually you do not want remission from CFS if you still have an active infection, since during CFS the max killing happens