great video on fasting to cure lyme

cool - sounds like a good plan

ref coffee - great minds think alike
i love it - and have even made my own modded coffee grinder and espresso machine to get the absolute maximum out of my guilty pleasure.

i say guilty as i do think its a bit hard on the gut - at least have read it increases gut permeability - so i consume it sparingly - and in the first half of the day.

we are all different though - you may be absolutely fine - but just thought i would pass on that it may not be worth the risk of making it the first thing to put in there and triggering anything adverse - after such a long break - maybe the next day?

dcd2103 said...
Yah i think the jury is out on coffee. Some studies show it increases motility and healthy bacteria. Others say leaky gut. It seems like you can find a study to say anything these days. It's not digested so absorbed pretty quickly I think. Regardless, its the one thing I cant give up, youd have to take it "from my cold dead hands"

you and me both!!!

here's my coffee rig
https://imgshare.io/image/p9ydl5
( no idea why the uploaded photo is on its side - tried 2 diff image hosting sites - and even rotated it - but its still uploads off by 90 degrees - some kind of iphone randomness going on )

Hey dcd - great that you've been able to make it this far! How are your energy levels?

about the binders, I guess I just don't understand how they would help when you're not moving anything through your digestive tract. Hmmm...

dcd2103 said...
Energy levels are low. Back pain aside, days 3-6 I was riding a bit of a zen high. Day 7 I started to get fatigued. Yesterday I was winded walking up the stairs. Tolerable though.

Wrt to binders, and I'm no expert in detox pathways its not something I've spent a lot of time on, but I thought that toxins end up in the liver, get excreted into the intestines through bile, and are often re-uptaken through the galbadder, which is why you need to catch them before that happens? Just intuitively, if i'm sending toxins to the liver to be processed, at some point they have to end up in the intestinal tract to be removed, whether I'm eating or not, which is where binders come in (I am going to the bathroom 1-2x a day, mostly water, so there is flow through the intestines). Or am I wrong, maybe someone more knowledgeable on this subject can intervene.

wow! - 10 days is an amazing effort

ref the liver function - pretty much

bile is made in the liver, stored in the gall bladder and released when a special tasting gland located in the small intestine just downstream of the stomach outlet valve, senses fat content in a meal. the gall bladder then contracts ejecting its contents into the small intestine to help absorb fats and fat soluble nutrients.

most of the bile is re-absorbed by the gut lining - and carried to the liver in what's called the first pass or hepatic circulation(all blood from the digestive system is routed to the liver for first pass detoxification before being allowed into general circulation to protect the bodies other organs from toxins in the food and gut contents). The liver reforms the bile and gradually secretes it again where is is stored by the gall bladder ready for future meals.

some toxins (not all) follow this same recirculation path to some degree. there is likely a high degree of individual variation as detoxification pathways are one area where we are all quite variable. overall health likely plays a part too - or we may have different detoxification efficacy during different phases of our life.
certainly the overall toxin load plays a part - if you imbibe lots of things that use the exact same pathway - eg interacting drugs/ herbs/ alcohol/caffeine you can max out that pathways enzymes and stuff will effectively queue up while the liver deals with it.

all that said i am not sure if during fasting lots more toxins are produced - after all your symptoms have dropped dramatically so some kind of load on the system is less.
it makes sense that when burning fat stores in the body perhaps oil bound toxins stored in the fat come back out into circulation - but how much a factor that is i don't really know - my guess is its mostly conjecture.
also not all fat soluble toxins remain fat soluble and enter the bile - in fact one of the livers main functions is to take these fat soluble substances and sulphate them or methylate them or otherwise change them to make them water soluble and pass them to the kidneys so they can be excreted that way in a 2 stage process.

maybe one of the reasons fasting can help so much is that without the load of toxins on the liver from the digestive system - then it can get to work detoxing stuff that was otherwise never reaching the front of the queue ....?
if so perhaps that is the reasoning for the binders and since some of these toxins will be oil soluble - then perhaps binders could help capture them from the bile. still, historically i am sure many people have benefitted from fasting without binders, so it might be a nice to do rather than a must do.

i was also a little surprised to hear you are passing anything - sounds like a good thing to me.
how much liquid would you say you are consuming per day?

more power to you and wishing you very positive refeeding phase !

Post Edited (Garzie) : 6/23/2021 12:12:15 PM (GMT-6)

For completeness' sake, linking to a sub-thread I started with respect to this main thread on my fast.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4253864

Hey Pots. I ended the fast on day 11 and have transitioned back to a ketogenic diet.

While I was on it I had 6-7 amazing days of zero neuropathy. I watched 6 movies which I only do when I’m feeling well, normally the neuropathy prevents me from focusing on a movie.

Since stopping the fast I had some pains here and there return. I’m still in much better shape than I was before the fast, but i don’t think by itself that one single fast cured me. It really was great for stopping that flare I was in, calming me down, and beginning to weed out the bad bacteria.

Im still having some loose still, which I’ve had since I got sick and I take to mean my microbiome is still unhealthy. While researching recently I came across some info stating that gut bacteria can go dormant for up to 6m, so I guess no single fast can completely rewrite a microbiome when you’re as sick as me. This must have been what Mary R was referring to when she said that it takes 6m minimum strict ketosis before the microbiome starts to change permanently.

So what I do think is that even if one fast isn’t a cure, I think that fasting is great for the microbiome and will become part of my arsenal going forward. I have used it to springboard me back into a ketogenic lifestyle and I’m now doing intermittent fasting, 10am-4pm. I plan on water fasting 2-3 days/month.

I also think I made the mistake last time I did ketosis of not paying attention to my autonomics. Just because I was dieting doesn’t mean i can guzzle 2 huge cups of coffee in the am and get all amped up. Have to take the autonomic stuff more seriously this time or the gut and inflammation won’t fully heal

Dcd or anyone else do you continue taking supplements/abx/vit/binders while doing the fast?

Would this be enough for sodium,potassium and magnesium intake during the fast?

https://www.amazon.com/Fasting-Salts-Intermittent-Flavourings-Sweeteners/dp/B07Z55FLJC

Update:

I'm approaching almost 1 month since the start of that fast. I ended the fast 11 days in and have been experimenting w/ diet since then.

Going into the fast, I had been flaring for a good 4 weeks straight. Stuck on the couch w/ severe nerve pain. Spent a good 4 weeks literally in the same spot. The fast stopped the inflammation in its tracks, but it started to creep back up when I ended the fast.

I've since made some changes that are helping, and I'm feeling good and really optimistic.

1.) I've realized that this is going to take full commitment to change my lifestyle for at least a year. I'm really focusing on my autonomics. Gratitude journaling and meditaton in the AM and PM. Cut out coffee during the week. Adopting a positive attitude. Got off the fb groups which are very negative. Taking a break from work. Digital breaks at night. It's amazing how much these lifestyle hacks help.

2.) I've cut out a lot of supplements. I'm realizing that calm is what I need. If i can keep the immune system calm enough for long enough, it will change states. Probiotics and herbs especially i found very stimulating. Every time i stimulate that immune system, its a step back. Calm brain, calm gut is what i'm focused on.

3.) I'm adopting a semi-carnivore diet. 6 cups of meat broth a day, w/ one protein meal. I say semi because I allow myself some onions on my steak for example, or a small amount of broccoli in my ground chicken. Trying to add in organ meat.

I've just come across so many people who have healed their neurological conditions and/or chronic lyme with carnivore. You will get all the nutrients you need from meat, and it gives your digestive system a break from all the inflammatory food and a chance to heal. The gut lining and immune system have a chance to repair. The microbiome can reset after 6-12m. Vegan diets just dont work for these diseases. Theyre too hard on digestion and promote too much bacterial growth.

I'm very happy to report I've taken 4-5 solid, perfectly shaped BMs for the first time i can remember.

Nerve pain still has some flares, but its better than it was and headed in the right direction. There's a lot of damage that needs to be healed, and the slightest stress causes it to hurt, which causes emotional stress, which causes inflammation. Gonna take a long time to break that cycle.

So I'm not writing home that I am healed, not by any means. There's a lot of work to be done, I feel this will take at least a year of strict vigilance. I was on this path before only to cheat and fall off the wagon. But I knew a lot less last time, and therefore was less convinced of the healing power, which allowed myself to cut corners and cheat. I also didnt realize how important the lifestyle stuff was. I thought i could chug a venti of coffee and get all amped up and stressed out about things just because I was doing keto. Big mistake.

I think that if I can maintain this calm for long enough, the immune system will move from a default inflammatory state to a calm one.

I will keep updating. Again, I am not declaring victory by any means. I'm cognizant that i could find myself in a huge flare any day, but I'm at least hopeful, and when that happens I will try to remind myself that thats part of the healing process and keep going. Knowledge is power, and I've spoken to several people who have done this exactly as I'm trying to do it. The key seems to be the positive attitude. Setbacks happen on the road to recovery, the immune system will go through fits and starts. If you fall apart every single time, the whole process breaks down. Stick to the process.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 7/9/2021 7:17:22 AM (GMT-6)