HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Lyme and Jaw Pain? Herx?

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 6/30/2021 11:03 PM (GMT 0)
One of my first symptoms I had before I tested positive for Lyme in 2013 was a dislocated jaw. I couldn’t shut my mouth all the way—and painful obviously. Took Doxy 3 week course and my jaw and joint pain went away after the first week of Doxy… Tested negative for Lyme a year later (by CDC standards at least).

Anyway, it’s now 2021, and I just saw a couple Lyme doctors recently (I’ve been having health issues the past few years), and they looked at my Igenix, MDL, and Galaxy labs and said I’m positive for Borrelia and Bartonella.

So, I guess it either never went away from 2013 completely, or I got reinfected. In any case, when I take Lyme herbs now, sometimes my jaw starts to hurt.

This has to be a sign that the herbs are hitting the Lyme right? The jaw issues were my first sign something wasn’t right before I tested positive for Lyme in 2013, and now when I take CSA by woodland Essence, it seems to trigger jaw pain. Other times, certain Lyme herbs seem to make my jaw feel more fluid (clicking less). Something is happening here yea? Hopefully a good sign the herbs are having an effect…
Posted 6/30/2021 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
I test negative for Lyme, by the way, on the regular Lyme tests… So, given that the herbs cause something to happen in my jaw, I feel like it must mean that the more specialized Lyme tests are probably accurate and that I still have some Lyme bacteria in my body. Maybe not enough to test positive by CDC standards, but it must be there if Lyme herbs cause my jaw to feel inflamed sometimes…. Possible sign of Herx?
Posted 6/30/2021 11:28 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds like you're in a tricky spot. If you have tested positive on a western blot before, you may continue to test positive from here on out no matter what you do. What caused you to see the Lyme doctors?

Have you ever had a root canal? I have and for years I would get pain on that one side of my jaw.. Lyme treatments would sometimes flare it.
Posted 6/30/2021 11:29 PM (GMT 0)
"This has to be a sign that the herbs are hitting the Lyme right? The jaw issues were my first sign something wasn’t right before I tested positive for Lyme in 2013, and now when I take CSA by woodland Essence, it seems to trigger jaw pain. Other times, certain Lyme herbs seem to make my jaw feel more fluid (clicking less). Something is happening here yea? Hopefully a good sign the herbs are having an effect…"

It sounds like the CSA is causing the effect - ie 'hitting the lyme" - CSA is a babesia herb - it could be triggering babesia.....or even bartonella - as Sida Acuta (the "S" in the CSA) is one of Buhner's recommended herbs for Bartonella.
Posted 6/30/2021 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. Yeah, who knows. Babesia was negative, so maybe it’s the Bart.

Andrographis never made my jaw hurt but it did seem to make it feel more fluid and less inflamed sometimes.

I’ve been pulsing the CSA with other herbs and the CSA clearly seems to make my jaw hurt. I’m taking it for a week at a time, with a week break in between where I take other herbs.

Only when I take the CSA have I noticed my jaw hurting for a couple days or so.
Posted 6/30/2021 11:44 PM (GMT 0)
Never got a root canal. I just think it’s interesting the connection with my jaw as the first Lyme symptom I got, and that I’ve been having symptoms years later now, and that certain herbs seem to trigger my jaw.

I don’t think the CDC testing parameters are accurate. They test for less strains than Igenix does. So I’m more willing to believe that Igenix being positive is accurate. And the fact that Galaxy detected Bartonella and it was never treated for, whether it’s old or new, means that I likely have it and need to treat for it.

Anyway thanks for the input. It seems to me that the correlation between specific herbs causing this jaw pain (which started with Lyme) is too clear to deny. I’m going to take it as a positive sign that they are having an effect. Generally, I feel better after herxing so I will keep at it.

potsnpans said...
Sounds like you're in a tricky spot. If you have tested positive on a western blot before, you may continue to test positive from here on out no matter what you do. What caused you to see the Lyme doctors?

Have you ever had a root canal? I have and for years I would get pain on that one side of my jaw.. Lyme treatments would sometimes flare it.

Posted 7/1/2021 12:37 AM (GMT 0)
“ I don’t think the CDC testing parameters are accurate. They test for less strains than Igenix does. So I’m more willing to believe that Igenix being positive is accurate. And the fact that Galaxy detected Bartonella and it was never treated for, whether it’s old or new, means that I likely have it and need to treat for it.“

You’re right about the CDC - I agree with you about Igenex positive is accurate.
Ditto with the Bartonella.
Posted 7/1/2021 1:07 AM (GMT 0)
Sounds like the dental spirochete.
Posted 7/1/2021 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
“ Thanks. Yeah, who knows. Babesia was negative, so maybe it’s the Bart. “

Don’t rule out Babesia - high false negatives for these infections.
Posted 7/1/2021 1:40 AM (GMT 0)

magoo2 said...
Sounds like the dental spirochete.

A Lyme spirochete you mean?

I’ve had joint pain other parts of my body too, not just jaw, and other Lyme symptoms, although this just an interesting thing that I can’t deny.
Posted 7/1/2021 1:42 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
“ Thanks. Yeah, who knows. Babesia was negative, so maybe it’s the Bart. “

Don’t rule out Babesia - high false negatives for these infections.

Ok, good to know. Maybe that’s why the naturopath I’m seeing suggested the CSA just in case. I did see a lot of people take it for babesia mostly.
Posted 7/1/2021 2:38 AM (GMT 0)
no I meant dental spirochete
Posted 7/1/2021 5:47 AM (GMT 0)

NorthCountry said...

Girlie said...
“ Thanks. Yeah, who knows. Babesia was negative, so maybe it’s the Bart. “

Don’t rule out Babesia - high false negatives for these infections.

Ok, good to know. Maybe that’s why the naturopath I’m seeing suggested the CSA just in case. I did see a lot of people take it for babesia mostly.


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, CSA is what Buhner recommends for babesia.
Posted 7/1/2021 5:56 AM (GMT 0)
It sounds to me like your issues are primarily stemming from your teromandibular joint? I similarly couldn't shut my jaw for weeks, and then it switched to being difficult to open, right around when my other symptoms got bad. I have been wondering if it could be due to bartonella. I've seen issues with the TMJ listed on various symptom lists for lyme but not so much for bart, but bartonella can impact literally any area of the body. In my opinion, if you tested positive for bart and you didn't treat that (doxy will not target bartonella), you might consider that it's lingering bartonella causing your issues and not necessarily lyme. Not to say that it can't be lyme, but I think a lot of folks underestimate how much damage bart can do on its own.
Posted 7/2/2021 12:31 PM (GMT 0)
I suspect I have had bartonella since childhood due to clinical signs. There have been times years ago when I had jaw discomfort that would come and go. I never was diagnosed with TMJ. I don’t recall ever having it since being sick, though. Since being sick, I have had transient tooth pain numerous times but don’t recall jaw pain.
Posted 7/3/2021 3:06 AM (GMT 0)
My jaw has been the last stronghold of Lyme/Bart/Babs and nothing has managed to get it out of there over 10 years of treatments. I got my wisdom teeth out 20 years ago and Lyme went crazy in there and all my symptoms got way worse. I had another 10 years to invade the jaw and cheekbones before I got diagnosed and started treating. It reacts to pretty much everything, Lyme abx, anti parasitics, Bartonella abx, Babesia meds. It's probably a combo of all the infections. I'm going to try fluconazole next to see if maybe there is fungal component as well. Good luck getting it out of the jaw if it's established there. If you find something that works please let us know. Some woman in a facebook group posted that 2 years of Rifabutin had almost cleared her Bart from the facial bones. I haven't tried that one yet but certainly herxed from Rifampin.
Posted 7/3/2021 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
Lyme/bart caused me jaw pain, and this did resolve with antibiotics.

I don't know of any special combinations of abx for jaw infection, it was the same stuff I took for infection elsewhere in the body.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply