Can you get a immediate herx?

Can you get a herx immediately, or 1-2 hours after taking something against your infection and that from low doses, or is it more likely to be MCAS related? I started houttuynia again for my bartonella and I react to two drops already and that pretty fast, so I've been wondering what those reactions are and how I can tell the difference and if the tinctures even work?

bilberry said...
Can you get a herx immediately, or 1-2 hours after taking something against your infection and that from low doses, or is it more likely to be MCAS related? I started houttuynia again for my bartonella and I react to two drops already and that pretty fast, so I've been wondering what those reactions are and how I can tell the difference and if the tinctures even work?

I had an almost immediate reaction to sida acuta within minutes I couldnt breath and i felt wired up with fast heart rate. Most buhne herbs are stimulants I think. And oregano oil gave me an immediate herx with fast heart beat and anxiety it's a herx. I have no issue at all taking oregano oil capsules at all though

MedicalNerd said...
I had an almost immediate reaction to sida acuta within minutes I couldnt breath and i felt wired up with fast heart rate. Most buhne herbs are stimulants I think. And oregano oil gave me an immediate herx with fast heart beat and anxiety it's a herx. I have no issue at all taking oregano oil capsules at all though

Thank you, MN 🙂 It's so tricky to tell the difference. So are you saying it depends on the way you take the herbs? Now that I think about it, tinctures probably get into the body faster through the mucous membranes of the mouth than capsules that have a longer way

good point girlie, I often had immediate (1-3 hour) reaction to the Byron White antimicrobials and assumed it was a herx but would actually get slammed with a full herx 24-48 hrs later. looking back I wonder if it was some other reaction

I did have early reactions to different things. Who’s to say whether it’s MCAS. I have n idea.

When I first started treatment, within an hour, I got an electrical pain that went through the top of my head and out my lower jaw from a few drops of Houtty and/or sida. Also had twitchy/jumpy sensations.

Vit C probably caused MCAS. I had strong itchy/twichy feelings, sudden rage, and started wigging out.

Flagyl went to my head pretty quick, causing burning and brain inflammation the first two days and again the last two days of a 7 day round. Side effect? Herx? MCAS? Who knows.

bilberry said...
Can you get a herx immediately, or 1-2 hours after taking something against your infection and that from low doses, or is it more likely to be MCAS related? I started houttuynia again for my bartonella and I react to two drops already and that pretty fast, so I've been wondering what those reactions are and how I can tell the difference and if the tinctures even work?

I have herxed that fast. I don't think it's just from MCAS. If your lymph nodes and other detox pathways are clogged and/or you have tons of bacteria then it IS possible.

If Burbur Pinella works in 20 min and things like Advil and Benadryl work in 30 min, then yes, you can have die-off that fast. There is no set timeline for how fast or slow your lymph nodes clog or clear.

I have stood in front of my infrared light and almost immediately had sweating and Bartonella smell. That's my body dumping toxins.

Herxheimer reactions were first characterises in syphilis infections a very long time ago - maybe around 1900 - and have since been found in many other spirochete infections - including lyme disease, tick borne relapsing fever, yaws, etc etc - and some other bacterial infections also.

according to the literature they can start within 2 hours of antibiotics

eg
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5239707/

In a prospective study of 33 pregnant women in Texas with syphilis, who were treated with benzathine penicillin, 15 (45%) developed a JHR that was more common in primary and secondary infections than in latent infections; it started 2–8 hours after therapy, peaked at 6–12 hours, and resulted in fever and uterine contractions in most women, resulting in delivery of three infants with congenital syphilis.13

in my own experience - the stronger the dose - be it herb or abx - the quicker the herx like effect comes on - so for instance - if i start having herx within a few hours i know its going to be pretty strong - whereas other milder ones take up to 3 days to show up.

i do think there is something odd and as yet unexplained going on in terms of the actual cause of herxhiemer reactions. Apart from the commonly provided explanation of bacterial die off toxins causing detoxification overload and so sick feelings/symptoms

in lyme disease this phenomenon of herx like effects can last weeks or even indefinitely - suggesting there are other mechanisms in play - it is also highly variable from person to person - one may have no herx at all - yet get better - another may have herx like reactions for years - with the same infection and on the same drug - again suggesting there are unexplained mechanisms at work. some immune inflammatory dysregulation effect seems to be likely.