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New here, just starting medical school with Lyme/bortonella/babesia

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Posted 8/1/2021 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
Hey everyone, I’m new here but spent a lot of time on the rising phoenix forum for ME/CFS before I knew what was going on.

A very long journey, as most have had, has led me to test positive for reactivated lyme (IgM positive on multiple strains) and IgG positive for bartonella, babesia, and toxoplasmosis.

Based on my primary symptoms (brain fog, air hunger, neck pain, fatigue and depression) I’d say the babesia is playing a big roll even though only IgG showed and potentially the others as well.

I’m just now getting into the lyme world but also have my first day of medical school tomorrow (yes I’m mildly terrified) so just going to try and keep up while I treat and pray. I’ve got a good doc locally (Knoxville, TN) and trying to get into see another.


I’ve had time to read over most of the common literature and LLMD thoughts for these three infections and have a decent grasp on things as well as some of the protocols used.

I had a couple quick questions if anyone could help though.

1. This is one of the more active lyme forums I’ve seen but I haven’t found any that are extremely comprehensive like Rising Phoenix is with ME/CFS. Are there any other forums you guys could recommend with a high level of members/activity around lyme and coinfections? I like to be involved in a number of communities if I can to get the most amount of ‘real world’ info as I can.

2. Can anyone recommend the most legitimate sites for tinctures and supps? I’ve seen Nutrimedix obviously but they are so expensive. I’m thinking about going at the babesia first with cryptolepis/CSA and a few other things. Can anyone give a general consensus on these sites or other good ones to source from?

https://woodlandessence.com/products/csa-formula?variant=32557362062

https://shop.lymecore.com/shop/csa-tincture-formula/

https://www.sagewomanherbs.com/csa-tincture-blend-organic.html

https://lymeherbs.eu/

That last one has a huge selection which I like but wanted to get opinions on where to buy from.



Oh! Also wanted to see if anyone has thoughts or experiences with far infrared saunas as I was thinking about getting one for my home.

Thanks everyone!
Posted 8/1/2021 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
My doc recommends woodland essence as a place to get cryptolepis.
Posted 8/1/2021 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
I strongly recommend that you get an IR-sauna, but check that you are buying a low-EMF sauna first. They are great for detox. We bought a small sauna for just one person.
https://www.luxway.se/bastu-infraroed-foer-1-person/bastu-jade-singel-rund.html
Posted 8/1/2021 7:06 PM (GMT 0)
Welcome to the forum!

I have used Woodland Essence and Sage Woman Herbs and they are both good sources.

FWIW - Buhner recommends both
Posted 8/1/2021 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
Awesome thanks guys! Appreciate it. Gonna order up
Posted 8/2/2021 5:39 AM (GMT 0)
This is probably going to be depressing advice, but I would probably reconsider investing several hundred $ dollars in your schooling if you are seriously ill with these infections. Granted, I don't know how bad you are and you did get into med school so are probably decently functional.

But realistically this illness is a one way street to disability for most. I treated for 10 years and now am basically non functional can't work in the relatively high stress jobs I used to be able to and went to school for. I'm glad I didn't do a masters and invest further in my education because it would be useless to me now.

With the current state of treatments many can barely hold down part time work post treatment, let alone get through a medical degree/residency.
Posted 8/2/2021 7:11 AM (GMT 0)
I don’t agree with that project. I started studying Computer Science 2 years ago, it's hard when sick but it's far from impossible. I started studying at 75 % as I also had to work to support my girlfriend that is sicker than me when she got $0 a month.
In the last 6 months, I studied 100 % and worked 4-10 hours most weeks.

I focused quite little on normal treatment, as I got an increase in herxing that made it very hard to perform in school and work, and instead focused on lifestyle improvements that don’t have any herx problems.
So a lot of IR-sauna, sleep, diet, mindfulness, cold therapy, and similar.
DNRS was the thing that saved me, as it made my sensitivities to light better so that I could stand the harsh lights in the class rooms.

When you study with a handicap you have to study smarter and harder than a normal person. Brain fog during exams/labs sucks, but there are always re-exams if you have a bad day when you have to perform.

Post Edited (Deep_sleep) : 8/2/2021 1:22:46 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/2/2021 12:28 PM (GMT 0)
I think the mistake people make is that getting a Lyme diagnosis after having gotten put in a bucket like CFS, Fibromyalgia, etc means you actually have a decent shot at beating the illness. That was what I thought 10 years ago, was working at Amazon at the time. Figured I could beat it in a year or two. Fast forward 10 years I'm sicker than ever, body just older and more damaged from all the inflammation of herxing.

Unless you catch it really quickly after the bite, like ideally within month and at most a year or two, and were really healthy beforehand, this illness is just going to grind you down until you are essentially disabled.

This is all based on the current (laughable) state of the Lyme treatments. The proof of this is the crazy hype that surrounded Disulfiram. These LLMDs were literally calling it a game changer treatment. Based on the groups I'd say less than 5% hit remission from it. Many instead ended up with nerve damage. So what does that say about the rest of the stuff in the LLMD toolbox?

Yes the current treatments can get people out of wheelchairs and no longer bedbound. But poke around in the facebook groups to see what the handful of people in so called 'remission' are doing. They aren't working at top tech companies or as doctors. The vast majority of people that get 'better' from this illness are still basically housewives/husbands or maybe working some part time low stress job. Their quality of life is improved and I'm sure they're happy, but put them in a typical high stress 9-5 environment and I doubt their immune system would keep them in remission for very long.

I'm not trying to kill anyone's dreams but the reality of the situation is that we're looking at a lifetime of disabling illness mainly just getting worse with age. Investing heavily in a career path that doesn't take that into account is probably unwise.
Posted 8/2/2021 1:00 PM (GMT 0)
I went a few years with a big ring on my leg and no treatment, as I was so busy with my girlfriend's illness. She went from bedbound 20 hours a day to now having her own company that is going quite well after one year, where she often works 5.5 days a week, but with more breaks and fewer hours per day. I don’t think they're anything that you will get you well by itself. It's going to be a combination of so many different things. We got sick 8 years ago after living in mold, and no direct treatment after our illness.

I have to prioritize good general health with diet, sleep, stress, exercise, and detox for the rest of my life to function in a high-stress job, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. So I don’t think people should give up on their dreams 😊
Posted 8/2/2021 1:14 PM (GMT 0)
That's great that she's making it work. Most of the success stories I've heard around functioning with Lyme involve people running their own businesses. I guess if it's successful it can buy you the flexibility to be able to take downtime when you need. Student life is similar it's not the same demands as full time work at all.

The main issue is that most demanding jobs require you to be at 100% or close to it all day every day. With Lyme this is basically impossible, even while in 'remission' people will have bad days when you struggle to function. This is a deal breaker for most of these types of jobs. I'm not saying you can't get creative and start a company and work around your limitations. But OP is talking about spending years to become a doctor.

I was originally thinking of becoming an air traffic controller, almost started along that path with testing etc. Now I look back and laugh at my naivety. I managed to work in tech for 15 years or so before declining too far. But it was a battle. I can only imagine how bad things would have gone had I tried to do that other career I was considering.
Posted 8/2/2021 4:06 PM (GMT 0)
Any long term health condition can cause people to become disabled. I have had friends with complicated health conditions unrelated to diseases like Lyme who have become severely debilitated in their 40s.

It is true that a lot of people have become severely disabled from Lyme, but that doesn't mean that they won't or can't recover. Doctors don't fully understand what causes chronic illness and I don't know if they ever will (I'm not saying that I understand it either).

I think it is great that you are going to med school. I was thinking about trying med school, but it is expensive, and I have a weak stomach for yucky things. smile

If you are financially able to afford the cost of med school and treatment, and you still want to go ahead, then I would say, why not. Just make sure you keep treating the Lyme while you are doing it.

I thought I would never be able to drive again, but I feel like I have trained my brain to stay "on the job" while I drive, and I am okay now.
Posted 8/2/2021 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
I get the thoughts but I don’t think it’s as a definitive diagnosis as many, including me, take it to be sometimes. Granted this depends heavily on the person. I think I got mine when I was a kid and didn’t have any symptoms until I was an adult and only because of a pretty drastic hit to my immune system (mold) which caused reactivation.

Ive improved 5 fold in the last year and am hopeful to continue.

My physician that’s currently treating me has the same thing as me (lyme reactivated by mold along with coinfections) and she recovered completely and is practicing. I also spoke with a family this week that I know personally - 2 of their kids and the wife all had lyme and got treatment at a local center and have all recovered to post lyme life successfully.

It’s a long road but right now with a shot at becoming a doc I’m definitely going to take it
Posted 8/2/2021 4:46 PM (GMT 0)
I can respect project's posts and opinions and I somewhat agree, but -- I just want to say that after 2 years of Lyme treatment and completely overhauling my entire life I have NO desire to go back to the stressful job and existence that I had before. This whole healing process has made me completely re-evaluate everything I was doing before, and how I lived my life.

Maybe the people who don't go back to high-stress jobs/careers have realized that it just was not worth it. Partly that is what made us sick in the first place. I buried my stress and literally ran my body into the ground. I ran marathons with my arm going numb, and debilitating nerve pain. I ran from the trauma of my past because I could not admit what had happened to me. None of that was worth it. It was a coping mechanism.

When I am fully in remission I am looking at a career change to possibly something like massage therapist or something where I can actually help people.

That said, I think OP should only consider med school if they're going to treat Lyme patients -- because they will be one of the few doctors who understands it.
Posted 8/2/2021 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Swim, I think it's great that you are going to medical school and will be involved in healthcare someday!! This illness will certainly give you an education that will serve you well in the future...I'm an RN and lyme and being chronically ill is what pushed me to get into this field!

While much of what project describes about the prognosis of people living with lyme seems to be accurate, I don't think it has to be that way. There are many exceptions to this rule, they just aren't out posting on forums and they are living their lives. If you can get on with a treatment that works for you while you are still in your first two years of med school (and have some free time outside of rotations and whatnot) I think you can do this. Get it all under control before these issues spin you out instead.

If I were in your shoes right now, I would prioritize detoxing mold and maybe addressing parasites (toxic load in general) first.

Then, I'd look into Deseret Biologicals Series therapies for Lyme and co-infections. They offer a unique treatment which I believe addresses a missing piece to fighting lyme and co. The treatment addresses the immune response and re-trains your body to recognize and fight back against borrelia (or whatever bacteria/virus you decide to treat using series therapy-There are many options.) Similar to low dose immunotherapy in some ways.

I've been on the lyme and co rollercoaster since 2006, using various herbal treatments to keep it under control, but I never felt like the herbs got me all the way there. I'm treating lyme, babesia, mycoplasma and anaplasma with desbio since April and I'm not going to lie, this treatment will kick your butt, but it is WORKING.

Wish you the best of luck with school and treatment!
Posted 8/4/2021 3:59 PM (GMT 0)
I am going to vigorously challenge some of the statements made above. If your dream is to become a doctor I say go for it. We need more doctors who understand this germ more than just a few LLMDs. You will have first hand experience and provide a balance to the "its just in your head" that most of us have gotten. Just because you have tested positive for the various Lyme germs does not mean you life is over. Never give up. Is treatment a hard and long process - you bet. Will you have ups and downs - yes. Should you give up - never. I can't think of a better place for someone to make a difference with this than as a doctor.

Every month or so we get new information, treatments and research on Lyme and related germs. Does everything work - no it doesn't but that doesn't mean we give up trying. I also have a very high stress job and have been able to go from not being able to walk to the mailbox to about 90-95% of my former capacity. I work with many, many people who have had this disease and they have recovered. Some have taken a long time and some are still working on it (me) but they did it. You can too.
Posted 8/4/2021 7:25 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks BrianinPA! Appreciate it. I’m sure I have a ways to go but holding up well so far. Are you a PA or is that coincidence in your sig?
Posted 8/4/2021 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
Part of the problem when dealing with multiple pathogens is that they have a synergistic effect on each other. While they help each other survive, they decrease our ability to fight them through various ways. Just as an example, Bartonella infects CD34 cells. When Lyme causes inflammation, the first cells there are CD34 cells and their numbers are lowered and this helps spread infection. Babesia infects CD34 cells as well so they actually compete with Bartonella. All things equal, Babesia usually out competes Bartonella over time. I haven't gotten into the when to treat what information, but treating various pathogens in the correct order is important. Trying to kill one without reducing the ones helping it can be an issue.
Posted 8/5/2021 12:10 AM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
Just as an example, Bartonella infects CD34 cells. When Lyme causes inflammation, the first cells there are CD34 cells and their numbers are lowered and this helps spread infection.

Interesting theory. I have noticed that since I eliminated bartonella, I am herxing a lot more from Lyme. I've actually reduced how much antibiotics I am taking because I was herxing so much.
Posted 8/5/2021 5:55 PM (GMT 0)

Quin said...

Georgia Hunter said...
Just as an example, Bartonella infects CD34 cells. When Lyme causes inflammation, the first cells there are CD34 cells and their numbers are lowered and this helps spread infection.

Interesting theory. I have noticed that since I eliminated bartonella, I am herxing a lot more from Lyme. I've actually reduced how much antibiotics I am taking because I was herxing so much.


It's not a theory, taken directly from the literature.
Posted 8/6/2021 2:29 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
Part of the problem when dealing with multiple pathogens is that they have a synergistic effect on each other. While they help each other survive, they decrease our ability to fight them through various ways. Just as an example, Bartonella infects CD34 cells. When Lyme causes inflammation, the first cells there are CD34 cells and their numbers are lowered and this helps spread infection. Babesia infects CD34 cells as well so they actually compete with Bartonella. All things equal, Babesia usually out competes Bartonella over time. I haven't gotten into the when to treat what information, but treating various pathogens in the correct order is important. Trying to kill one without reducing the ones helping it can be an issue.

This corresponds to what my experience has been and my strategy has been to focus on treating the ones which present with the loudest symptoms. I had almost no babesia symptoms but when I did the igenex fish test sure enough it was positive. I hope I’m now down to just bartonella but it has been very difficult to treat.
Posted 8/7/2021 1:24 PM (GMT 0)

Swim15 said...
Thanks BrianinPA! Appreciate it. I’m sure I have a ways to go but holding up well so far. Are you a PA or is that coincidence in your sig?

Yes I am in PA.
Posted 8/7/2021 1:32 PM (GMT 0)
BrianinPA, just a few quick questions about your LLMD. Is he Dr. FN in Myerstown? Would you recommend him for difficult cases? Is he knowledgeable about Bartonella? Reasonably priced? open minded? I would have e-mailed but saw no address available in your bio. Thanks!
Posted 8/8/2021 7:39 PM (GMT 0)

Quin said...
Interesting theory. I have noticed that since I eliminated bartonella, I am herxing a lot more from Lyme. I've actually reduced how much antibiotics I am taking because I was herxing so much.

This happened to me too, though I don't think I'm entirely done with Bartonella. As soon as my Bart bacterial load came down (after 2 freaking years) I started getting really faint bullseye rashes everywhere and flu-like symptoms. I'm even getting joint pain now, and I never had joint pain.
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