Are the LLMDs reccomending vaccine? SP ? Effectiveness???

JMF84 said...
The trials for the shots were done before the Delta too, and I heard a doctor say recently that the current Covid shots were not created for the current Covid strain. As I see it, it's like taking a 2019 flu shot for the 2021 flu strain except that it's much more dangerous.

It's nothing like that.. influenza mutates much faster. The current covid vaccines are still very effective, though notably less so than they were against the original strain. I believe there are multiple reasons for this and that immune evasion is probably only a small contributor. But this stuff has been (and will continue to be) researched ad nauseam.. I'm not an expert, just mean to say that a better understanding is probably available to both of us.

JMF84 said...
Re: VAERS, the general consensus seems to be that AEs are underreported.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33039207/

I think you're missing the point. People such as carlnpa are drawing conclusions from VAERS data that simply cannot be drawn. Many more steps need to be taken before the system's true utility can be realized.

If real world safety data is what you're after, here is a huge study with a control group that was done in Israel:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2110475

It was not blinded but it uses the best methods possible at this point to narrow in on the general safety of covid vaccines (this one being Pfizer). There are almost 900k participants in each group.

"The set of potential adverse events for the target trial was drawn from several relevant sources, including the VAERS, BEST, and SPEAC frameworks, information provided by the vaccine manufacturer, and relevant scientific publications."

From the conclusion section: "The vaccine was associated with an excess risk of myocarditis (1 to 5 events per 100,000 persons)." That's probably the most alarming finding. Check out the rest if interested.

Deep_sleep: for "stroke or heart attack" see table 2. It lists "cerebrovascular accident" and "myocardial infarction" among the other adverse events that were monitored for. They should be stratified by age elsewhere in the paper

I honestly just skimmed through it but one thing that caught my attention was that in the vaccine group, some symptoms such as anemia and intracranial hemorrhage were reported less than they were in the placebo group.. so this study appears to have caught some "unreported" benefits to covid vaccination. These events were likely caused by undiagnosed sarscov2 infections. Control groups are super important!

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 8/29/2021 3:19:50 PM (GMT-6)

potsnpans said...
Lightlife: i couldn't find anything from SP. I think it's just so controversial in the Lyme community that most practicioners have become hesitant to take a public stance either way

I think also they don’t want to officially say yay or nay and then someone gets a really bad vax event OR they get very sick from covid and then blamed.
I can understand that.

Here's a link to that doctor I mentioned earlier in case anyone is interested in hearing what she said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jktvh6k0qys&list=plr8f_swwzprsxd3rbhh_8agxrkjz15ire&index=66

"So the mRNA vaccines make one more susceptible to infection by future variants"

No, that's not accurate. It's a hypothesis at best and it applies to those w immunity from prior infection as well.

Continuing to vaccinate will help reduce genetic diversity of sarscov2, thereby reducing any risk.

Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot

Never underestimate the immune system.

From John Hopkins University:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/report/types-of-covid-19-vaccines

Viral vector vaccines use another non-replicating virus to deliver SARS-CoV-2 genes, in the form of DNA, into human cells where viral proteins are produced to induce protective immune responses. This viral DNA is not integrated into the host genome (i.e.., all of the body’s DNA) but is transcribed or copied into messenger RNA and translated into proteins. Current SARS-CoV-2 viral vectored vaccines use non-replicating human or chimpanzee adenoviruses, including those by AstraZeneca with the University of Oxford, Johnson & Johnson, CanSino Biologics, and the Gamaleya Research Institute, part of Russia’s Ministry of Health.

You can read more by clicking on the link above.

And this is interesting:

57 Top Scientists and Doctors Demand Immediate Stop to all Vaccinations:

https://en-volve.com/2021/05/08/57-top-scientists-and-doctors-release-shocking-study-on-covid-vaccines-and-demand-immediate-stop-to-all-vaccinations/

Bottom line, I believe these shots are dangerous and it's unbelievable how they are not only being pushed by MSM but how media outlets are censoring information. I don't remember information regarding flu shots as well as other vaccines getting censored, why is that?

Denise

CalmLittleBuddha said...
I can no longer afford to see my LLMD but i still talk to some of her other patients amd she is telling them not to get the vaccine, she plans on making a diluted version but NYS won't allow her to give you a card saying that you got the vaccine. I know my body reacts crazy to vaccines, I think maybe it's MCAS flaring up. As babies both my twin system and I had to get half doses of vaccines or else we would develope a reaction. I am thinking my job will require it soon and I would most ffely resign instead if getting it,

I had to get a quarter does of the flu shot, it definitely helped,
I took moderna in July and I am still messed up. I will not be getting the second doses.
I had my antibodies tested after the vaccine and they were high. I hope this helps you!!

I personally know, know one in real life (not internet forums) who has had an adverse reaction besides feeling crappy for 12-24 hours. Between my wife and I suspect thats close to 200+ people.

Yes the media does bury it when it happens.

caramelkisses said...

CalmLittleBuddha said...
I can no longer afford to see my LLMD but i still talk to some of her other patients amd she is telling them not to get the vaccine, she plans on making a diluted version but NYS won't allow her to give you a card saying that you got the vaccine. I know my body reacts crazy to vaccines, I think maybe it's MCAS flaring up. As babies both my twin system and I had to get half doses of vaccines or else we would develope a reaction. I am thinking my job will require it soon and I would most ffely resign instead if getting it,

I had to get a quarter does of the flu shot, it definitely helped,
I took moderna in July and I am still messed up. I will not be getting the second doses.
I had my antibodies tested after the vaccine and they were high. I hope this helps you!!

So sorry this has happened to you both CalmLittleBuddha and Carmelkisses. The pressure to get vaxxed is unbelievable and if you don't you lose your job and have little chance of getting another as well as being allowed to go places, etc. (vaccine passports). It's just not fair and it's so very wrong. My heart breaks for you both.

Denise

The essence of science is free inquiry. The 'cancel culture' variety emanating from the highest institutional levels that is being imposed on us today is anti-science and is in the worst historical tradition. Perhaps they don't realize, but more likely they think they can get away with it, that when you repress free inquiry you destroy trust and ultimately make the situation worse.

Here is a study, out this week from Israel, of 670,000 patients, comparing naturally attained immunity vs. that from the vaccines, against new infections (Delta, in this case). They found, in short:

Somebody said...
SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021.

I didn't read the details, but I think the dating qualification of the vaccinations points to a major weakness they have - lack of "durability". Antibodies measure high shortly after vaccination, but according to at least one doctor who checked himself, six months later none were detected. Curiously, the CDC advises AGAINST testing for antibodies post-vaccination. Why would they not want feedback on such an important parameter?

The study did find that natural immunity plus one vaccine shot conferred the strongest immunity against the Delta variant. But I don't know how possible lack of durability might affect that.

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections | medRxiv

History teaches that governments take as much power as they can, and that once they have it wresting it back is most often a costly task. We should be very careful about the implications of what is going on. We should not believe that the US, or the rest of the advanced West, is immune to the laws of human nature. They are not.

"SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021."

Hi Paul: I see this as good news for natural immunity and for the world really.. not bad news for vaccine immunity. I've also seen at least one study where the two perform equally vs Delta, so it's a bit surprising that the difference is so dramatic here. The overall evidence does seem to be leaning towards natural immunity being better.

Of course it's not a question of getting the vax to acquire some immunity vs getting covid to acquire some immunity.. the important thing is that when you first get covid, that you have some acquired immunity at all. If you do, it will not be a "novel" virus to you anymore.

At any rate, I think yearly boosters are looking like they'll be even less necessary now as sarscov2 becomes endemic.

There are preprints out comparing vax to no vax vs Delta.. will try to find later.

"Curiously, the CDC advises AGAINST testing for antibodies post-vaccination. Why would they not want feedback on such an important parameter?"

Did they not say why they advise against it? Antibody levels are easy to measure so they really are being studied all of the time. It's common w other vaccines/diseases to see them spike initially and then taper off slowly.

I can't speak for the CDC, but maybe they don't want people to get confused. While high antibody levels do infer some level of protection, they don't really track perfectly w overall immunity (there are also memory b-cells, t-cells, etc.).. and no antibodies measured does not equal no protection

I can’t say whether or not one should get the vax. I personally think it should be left up to the individual. I will merely share my experience. I was dx’d with Lyme in 2014, and have treated
off and on since. I developed a flare back in 2019 that I’m currently in. I decided to get the jab. I weighed the possibilities “GBS or ventilator to breathe?” I got my last shot 8/13. Developed chills and body aches for a day. Then a couple days later it started flaring my neuropathy. Since, I have had fatigue and it made my cranial neuropathy return. Would I do the shot again? Well, with a 10 yr old child and a husband that’s portly, as well as me being in frail health, I felt like the benefits outweighed the negatives. But I do think it should be up to an individual and I’m disgusted by the propaganda and civil rights disruptions it has caused. BTW, my pcp that is Lyme lit is staunchly anti-vax. My LLMD that’s a rheumatologist insisted I get the shot. Do I think it’s toxic? No more toxic then the antibiotics we take to cure our Lyme.

Post Edited (ElizKA26) : 9/2/2021 2:27:03 PM (GMT-6)

Paul B said...
Because I believe the way we should have dealt with this disease is to allow it to run its course among the population that has high natural immunity to it, while treating them with early regimens that are known to work

I think the outcome would have been pretty horrendous but don't really want to rehash that stuff. Relevant now is that everyone in the US has vax available to them so "allowing the disease to run its course" is much more reasonable. Any infection after vax can act as an unexpected "booster".

We aren't going to agree on how much or how well ivermectin, hcq, or the various supplements are "known to work". But fortunately it doesn't need to be an 'either or' scenario.

Paul B said...
There has been speculation that the mRNA vaccines are actually contributing to the creation of the new variants, since rather than introduce a muted pathogen to the body, as classic vaccines do, they instruct the body via genetic coding to make its own antigens.

Delta is currently the dominant variant in most of the world and it originated in India before there was much of any vax coverage. The virus was free to replicate and transmit there, which is far more important for producing new 'variants of concern' than any of the speculating being done.

In the study discussed below, vaccines cut even asymptomatic Delta infections by 50-60%. Vaccines also reduce replication within those who do get infected, and they reduce transmission to others:

"The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/react-study-shows-fully-vaccinated-are-three-times-less-likely-to-be-infected

"We conclude that rare vaccine breakthrough infections occur, but infectious virus shedding is reduced in these cases." (Delta)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262158v1

...and here are a couple of papers that suggest vaccination will continue to reduce the "creation of new variants":

"COVID-19 vaccines dampen genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2: Unvaccinated patients exhibit more antigenic mutational variance"

https://medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.01.21259833v1

"Full vaccination is imperative to suppress SARS-CoV-2 delta variant mutation frequency"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.08.21261768v2