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Posted 9/24/2021 8:03 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I have had lyme and bartonella for over 10 years. I have tried Teasel Root before, but had to stop due to symptoms being to severe. My knowledge of it, is that it has the ability to heal muscle tendons, ligaments, joints, and bones. It has the ability to put muscles and tendons back into place. It also cleans deep tissue which dumps loads of bacteria into the blood stream. I've read it can also heal lesion in the brain.

I have arthritis and atrophy in all my muscles and joints. When I would take the Teasel, even just one drop, I could feel my muscles warming up. By the time I got to 3 drops 3 times a day I had to stop. The pain and spasms where too much. I am taking a Teasel Fullonum Tincture at 1:3 ratio.

My question is, what are your experiences with Teasel? How did you get through the healing crisis? What species did you use? What ratios? What brands? Any side effects? Thanks so much.
Posted 9/24/2021 8:36 PM (GMT 0)
I’m using woodland essence. I haven’t had any reactions to it although I don’t really Herx with anything.

Added it in about two weeks ago and dose 2-3x per day. I eyeball it so maybe 10-15 drops
Posted 9/24/2021 9:03 PM (GMT 0)
i have been using it for a while now -
i make the tincture myself from teasel root from a chinese herb supplier

they list it as
Latin Name: Dipsacus asperoides C.Y. Cheng et T.M. Ai
Pharmaceutical Name: Radix Dipsaci
basically chinese teasel root

I use 1:3 45% alcohol per Buhner's recipe

the tincture is very dark - almost black - i find it very potent - similar in strength to sida acuta for me.
the first time i took it i started on 15 drops 3x and have a strong herx like reaction - it was too much

this time i started on just a few drops - and gradually built up - i am now taking around 40drops 3x and tolerating it fine - but i had to go slowly - i think it took around 1 year to get to this dose - add ing more only when i felt i could tolerate the previous does well

i am using it in combination with sida, houttuynia, cryptolepis, alchornea etc and these all also caused strong reactions.

i took it after around 1year on Buhner's immune modulating an anti-inflammatory herbs for lyme - which helped some - but i felt i needed something for co-infections - so gradually added the above while continuing the buhner herbs for lyme
Posted 9/24/2021 9:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Garzie

Wow, Thank you for all this information.

I could actually feel and see that some of my muscles where in a different place after I stopped Teasel. I could also see a visible reduction in joint swelling. It also had a way of exacerbating all the symptoms related to anxiety.

What have you felt the Teasel has healed?

I also think your approach of slowly increasing over a year is really smart. With other herbs I have taken breaks to prevent side effects. Have you taken breaks with Teasel? Also JW, what solvent do you use?

Also are you taking Sida Acuta for Bartonella?
Posted 9/24/2021 9:09 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Swim15

Thanks you for your response. I was thinking of trying the woodland essence one.
Posted 9/24/2021 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
@LymePeace1 I'll give you my experience with Teasel Root tincture, it was strong and I had worked up to more than a few drops a day, up to a whole dropper a few times a day. I think I bought it on eBay or Amazon, and the tincture was made from high proof whiskey, unless that it is how Teasel tastes also (?). From what I can recollect, I wanted to aggressively do the Buhner's protocol so I got together as many of those ingredients as I could, ( I hear Etsy is a good source of artisan herbs/tinctures now...) so like you, having Lyme+ (lyme plus coinfections, thx I'm reading/listening to the book Chronic which uses that lyme + "plus" to refer to what most of us have, with Bartonella being well...very unpleasant to say the least) so I went at my co-infections with Buhner's herbs...but like your experience it was too intense and the anxiety and neuro-psych. problems were too hard to bear at a certain point, so I put that dropper back in the medicine cabinet for later...it definitely stirs bacteriae out of deep places I would say, also I'm very sensitive to alcohol, and it is good to be mindful that the tincture effect/alcohol absorption rate can 10X or more! the potency with certain medicines/herbs, so to be aware of that and stay safe... peace.

edit: Crescent Moon Herbals of Lebanon, Maine is the brand of tincture I took, it is powerful and high quality I would say, but then it is the only one I've tried.
Posted 9/24/2021 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
@borrelioburgo

Thanks so much for your response. Did you feel that Teasel healed you in any way? Also just to add the Bart. Neuropsych. symptoms can be awful. Even if you are aware of them and practice mindfulness. I get pretty bad OCD. Not in the typical way that its representing in film and media. It manifests in different ways. Night terrors as well. But, the anxiety is like inconsolable.

I'm thinking of using antibiotics with the herbs. But, starting with the antibiotics first. Textracycline and Rifampin.

Oh, I just wanted to add that you should be very careful with Lion's Mane. I know that is on his protocol. I had some pretty awful//intense experiences with this. Just be careful taking so many nervine herbs at once. Or just so many at once in general. In my experience its best to break it down to combinations. Instead of trying to take an herb for every symptom. But, yea just be careful with Lion's Mane.
Posted 9/25/2021 10:13 AM (GMT 0)
LymePeace

i used alcohol 45% as per Buhner's recipes - i do not believe other solvents will work anything like as well

btw- i reduce the amount of alcohol consumed by placing the tinctures in a glass on a warming mat at 39 deg C for a few hrs before taking them

i cant say if or how much Teasel on its own cured anything - as i took it along with many other herbs as that is how i believe herbal medicine works best.
i did not take breaks - instead i only built up gradually at a dose i could tolerate

i had been very stick and stuck in an unimpproving state for 4 years - so i took a comprehensive and systematic approach - building the following into my routine one at a time

-strict whole foods ketogenic diet
-lifestyle changes focussed on sleep, exercise, stress management
-all Buhner's lyme herbs from his 2nd edition book
-all the co-infection herbs i mentioned
-LDN for immune function
-Ivermectin for immune modulation

i am overall around 50% recovered - all symptoms and overall function significantly improved and continuing - but still have a way to go.

its a lot - but i have tried a lot of things prior to this and am determined to get well - short sharp shock treatments were not working for me. so i adapted.
Posted 9/25/2021 12:33 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, Garzie

Thanks a lot again for telling more of your approach. What are some foods or dietary strategies you do? I am currently not eating after a certain time. It ends up being a 16-18 hour fast daily. I also try to be in bed at same time every night as well. Stress management is really important as well.

Foods I eat: Grapes, Banana, Iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, whole grain bread, organic butter, chicken, eggs
Posted 9/25/2021 2:01 PM (GMT 0)

LymePeace1 said...
Did you feel that Teasel healed you in any way?



...from vague readings doesn't Teasel Root draw spirochetes out of tissue? or drive them out?..my pnemonic device is that Teasel "teases" bacteria out of tissue, and I could be wrong not sure what else it does bactericidal or other MOA...

but from what I've gleaned from the top LLMD's-- it's part of a multi-prong abx/herbal approach-- you need an pharmaceutical-herbal mechanism with ABX/herbal bactericide also, and then make sure to detox with a strong binder if possible (I use Cholestyramine as needed, which incidentally "mobilizes" bacteria as well)...

It's hard to know if Teasel Root has healed me in any way, if agitation of bacteriae in tissue is part of the treatment, (of course it is, massage and light yoga too!) as I was observing Buhner's Protocol more closely, I had taken oral Doxycycline a few months earlier, and a few of the herbs on the protocol have some spirochete-killing effects (I think I vaguely remember about Cats Claw and Japanese Knotweed)--I don't claim to know the mechanism of action of each herb, but it helps to know as much as you can, I've had just as heavy Herxs die-offs and extreme malaise physical/mental with Grapefruit Seed Extract before,

I don't know that I'll be fully healed, as much as I can observe strict keto/paleo diet and fasting to allow my body to feel more functional sometimes.

Post Edited (borrelioburgdorferii) : 9/25/2021 8:04:57 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/25/2021 2:21 PM (GMT 0)
My basic Keto approach

i started this after finding by trial and error that my symptoms were worse when i ate more carbs, sugars or most dietary fibres

Keto is really simple - after 1 month you won’t even need to think about it

-I only eat whole foods - no packets or bars or "keto products" - basically comprises :

-non starchy veg for some fibre and nutrients - mainly celery, broccoli, salad leaves, lettuce, green olives, carrots, mushrooms

-meat, eggs, fatty fish for protein and fats ( i prefer grass fed meat - MAINLY beef and lamb - pork and chicken are raised in factories and fed factory produced feedstuff - and injected or fed with lots of antibiotics so they don't all die from disease in such close proximity - which makes them far from a natural product - so i prefer not to eat them )

-additional healthy fats as needed for weight or energy - Extra virgin coconut oil, Extra virgin olive oil, grass fed organic butter ( the only dairy i eat)

- no fruit at this time - i tried to keep some when i first started - but it wasn't helping - felt better without it

i try to keep my eating within a 12hrs window - stopping 4hrs before bed

Post Edited (Garzie) : 9/25/2021 8:24:54 AM (GMT-6)

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