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Ochratoxin A 12.21

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Posted 10/10/2021 12:45 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, i just got my great plains mycotox test, it says ochratoxin A is 12.21 (range is 7.5 max)

Now I want to know, how significant is this? I also have low cd57, CO infections like mycoplasma rickettsia, and probably lyme (only IgM once positive from arminlabs)

I don't know how to proceed, I'm detoxing now with charcoal, zeolite, herbs for liver and soon antibiotics

Maybe I should go on antifungal first? I am in a mold free place.
Posted 10/10/2021 1:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Marc! Welcome to the forum.

I was just reading stuff in the FAQ section of the Great Plains Lab website yesterday. I was surprised that they believe positive MycoTox tests are a sign of colonization. When I learned I had CIRS in 2016 by a Shoemaker trained doc, I don’t recall colonization ever being discussed. Probably because Shoemaker didn’t believe in it. After joining this forum, I learned more but thought the notion of colonization was still pretty controversial.

That aside, I got a much needed breakthrough after starting Fluconazole and Nystatin. I started one at a time and slowly increased dosages.

That’s amazing you found a mold free place. That’s by far the biggest and most difficult step. Have you tested this place with an ERMI or HERTSMI-2 to verify?

What about sauna? Do you have access to a sauna? I never got to use one but was told by both doctors I have had that it’s especially beneficial for mold illness.

P.S. - TUDCA helped me significantly with detox issues. I use the one from Microbe Formulas. They recently changed the formula, though, so it’s not the same. I contacted them about it. They told me the CellCore professional line is still the old formula. I believe the CellCore product is called TUDCA Advanced. You have to get it through a practitioner.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 10/10/2021 7:28:09 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/10/2021 1:30 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Hi, Marc! Welcome to the forum.

I was just reading stuff in the FAQ section of the Great Plains Lab website yesterday. I was surprised that they believe positive MycoTox tests are a sign of colonization. When I learned I had CIRS in 2016 by a Shoemaker trained doc, I don’t recall colonization ever being discussed. Probably because Shoemaker didn’t believe in it. After joining this forum, I learned more but thought the notion of colonization was still pretty controversial.

That aside, I got a much needed breakthrough after starting Fluconazole and Nystatin. I started one at a time and slowly increased dosages.

That’s amazing you found a mold free place. That’s by far the biggest and most difficult step. Have you tested this place with an ERMI or HERTSMI-2 to verify?

What about sauna? Do you have access to a sauna? I never got to use one but was told by both doctors I have had that it’s especially beneficial for mold illness.

P.S. - TUDCA helped me significantly with detox issues. I use the one from Microbe Formulas. They recently changed the formula, though, so it’s not the same. I contacted them about it. They told me the CellCore professional line is still the old formula. I believe the CellCore product is called TUDCA Advanced. You have to get it through a practitioner.

Thanks, I tried to learn about mold with my foggy brain, I saw they suggest only using binders everywhere but no antifungal drugs. I also think the fungus is inside me since I'm not exposed anymore. I did not test my home, but it's a very clean place, I think i got exposed from food maybe.

Now I'm only taking binders, but I will ask for antifungal probably. I have nystatin here too.
Posted 10/10/2021 1:34 PM (GMT 0)
Don’t guess. Test. Clean has nothing to do with it.
Posted 10/10/2021 1:49 PM (GMT 0)

Breezzy said...
I follow Klinghardt's approach. I made the mistake of ignoring parasites and mold early in treatment and I learned a hard lesson. I have made tremendous progress once I went after parasites. After 6months+ of parasites I will clean up ochra a and sterigmatocystin.

"Parasites are treated first, then mold, then bacteria, then viruses."

https://www.betterhealthguy.com/klinghardt-pearls

There are many other top practitioners that treat parasites first. It will help open your body's detox systems for mold treatment.

Same here. Need to take care of parasites and mopd first. I've just been prescribed albendazole , vermox and also rifaximin for my sibo which I supposedly didn't have despite years of symptoms. I've had sibo due to over use of antibiotics
Posted 10/10/2021 2:10 PM (GMT 0)
Where did you test for parasites? And which?
Posted 10/10/2021 2:32 PM (GMT 0)
Also do you think i can take antifungal and antibiotics at once?
Posted 10/10/2021 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
Neil Nathan does not believe that the amounts of ochratoxin found in foods are usually high enough to cause elevated numbers on the urine tests. So unless you eat mostly peanut putter (yum) it's best to look at your environment. What's the basement like? Is there carpet? Did you bring a mattress, books, or other porous materials from a previous living space that could have been contaminated?

That said, your results aren't all that high. My ochratoxin level was 29, and I know people in the 300s (one of them is much more functional that I was, for what that's worth). Testing is just one piece of the puzzle. Did you use glutathione or anything to provoke your system to release more mycotoxins before the test? The instructions offer some ideas for making sure your body's mycotoxin load will be evident in the urine sample.
Posted 10/10/2021 4:03 PM (GMT 0)
I always go back to a correspondence I had with the lab director and owner of great plains. His words in email:

Only about 2% or less of our mycotoxin samples have all the results in the normal range.

I dont think 98% of the people who sent in tests are suffering from mold problems. Consider that before you start throwing out all your belongs and freaking out. Its easy to go down a rat hole for years. I was one of the 2% cases yet people still were telling me to scrub the walls of my house.
Posted 10/10/2021 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
Oh and this is the corresponsanec on provoking a great plains test:

The possible use of glutathione or other binders prior to the test could lead to a false negative test. The big problem with glutathione is that it converts mycotoxins readily detectable by mass spectrometry into altered mycotoxin molecules with different masses(molecular weights) of mycotoxin-glutathione conjugates that are not detectable by mass spectrometry because such conjugates are not available from commercial sources. For example, at least a dozen derivatives of ochratoxin form by combining with glutathione. All of these dozen glutathione derivatives of ochratoxin have increased masses (reference attached)that cannot be detected by the mass spectrometer because it is set up to measure plain ochratoxin. I have posted this information to this group at least a dozen times. Of course, some medical practitioners still use binders and we at Great Plains accept whatever samples are submitted to this laboratory. I would still stick by my original assertion which is that the plain urine screening without glutathione challenge is probably the cheapest and fastest way to determine if there is a significant mold problem. I realize that some physicians have recommended the use of glutathione or other binders as a “challenge” but I have made my recommendation for sample collection based on considerable analysis of the different arguments. Only about 2% or less of our mycotoxin samples have all the results in the normal range.
Posted 10/10/2021 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
I took alot of R ala and nac before the test.
Posted 10/10/2021 8:25 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I would not be surprised if 98% of the samples they test for mycotoxins come back positive for something. The majority of buildings I have been in have various degrees of mold/mycotoxins and/or visible evidence of water damage.

The MycoTox test is not covered by my Blue Cross insurance, so I doubt many insurances cover it. Doctors generally don’t order mycotoxin testing unless they have some reason to suspect mold exposure. It’s not a free test, so most good doctors don’t just order this test willy-nilly.

I am obviously biased, as I have a long, complex experience with mold exposure, mycotoxins, and a very keen ability to detect mycotoxins in a building without doing any testing or inspection due to my extreme hypersensitivity and high awareness of my own reactions and symptoms.

I hired a mold dog 3 times (same dog). The dog was trained to detect mycotoxins just like dogs are trained to detect drugs or bodies. I am more sensitive than the dog. I could detect areas of contamination that the dog did not.

Being that I have such a high degree of sensitivity to mycotoxins, I know that most people are exposed to some species and quantities of mold and mycotoxins on a regular basis.

People who are seeing the kind of doctors who order these tests are NOT healthy, normal people. They are people who are chronically experiencing multiple symptoms that are otherwise unexplained. Healthy people don’t typically spend a few hundred bucks on medical tests just for the fun of it.

Anyone with chronic illness of any kind, including Lyme disease should avoid living and working in moldy buildings, IMO. It’s not a healthy environment for anyone, but it can be devastating to an impaired person.
Posted 10/10/2021 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
i have to say i am with Skinny Joe on this

i would love to know Great plains rationale for making the "normal limits" such that 98% of people come out with more than this level - i think they are a good company and i like their OAT tests - but what kind of normal is that?

my understanding of the OAT test by the same company has normal ranges that are simply standard deviations either side of the mean of a 1000random results - which is the typical way of doing it.

so , if you fall outside 2 standard deviations, then you have higher levels than around 95% of the test population - and now you can more easily interpret the result. diagram here helps illustrate it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/standard_deviation

so in my mind, if you are 10x above the normal limit - that might be one thing - but 1-2x - seems unlikely that this is a major issue - when only 2% are under that on all tests

also, i have never seen anything scientific that supports colonisation is a thing at all - even though many patients vehemently believe in it - I'm not saying it couldn't possibly be a thing - but it bothers me that we just don't see any science to back it up for highly toxic mold species.

so i do wonder if its just MD's and patients doing what human beings do - and fitting theories to explain what they see.
ie in simplified form " i think i have mold illness - i took binders - didn't seem to help - therefore it must be growing inside me"

there are of course other explanations
-was it mold or only mold to start with? - Bart and other things have v similar symptoms
-if it is mold - is exposure still going on - but unrecognised, home, work, outdoors, food, belongings
-if it is mold - it can just be very hard to treat - take a long time - or need specific binders - not all work equally well for all mold toxins
etc
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