RainyCloud said...
Hi Garzie,
Did you get Bartonella after Lyme?
Or did the Bartonella not kick in until later?
I'm curious because for me it seemed like everything kicked in at once, so I'm having trouble knowing which symptoms cause what.
I mean I know now that I have both, just not which one is more active.
its really hard to know Rainy
i had something going on prior to getting fully and suddenly ill in February 2015
somewhere around 2012 i had bouts of fatigue and then suddenly developed gall bladder disease - this is a very unusual condition in an otherwise healthy and active 45yo male - but is highly associated with Lyme disease (acc to Dr J - lots of free radicals are unable to be detoxified by the liver - enter the bile and damage and inflame the gall bladder) - so something was driving inflammation at that time - probably for a number of years -
so perhaps that was lyme and my generally v healthy diet and lifestyle was helping me keep it at bay.
but in the 2010-2014 time period my work - which was always high stress - trouble shopoting type stuff became even more so - with a business turnaround situation that was in constant crisis mode - v long days
- constant international travel - then incessant internal politics - meant it was just chronic stress overload.
because i had always done high stress jobs - and done well at them - i didn't really recognise how much of problem chronic stress could be
my partner and i then got bitten by around a dozen v aggressive biting flies in a swarm in July 2014 - and odd things started to happen from a few weeks later - mainly to my partner at first - loss of use of her arms - extreme pain in shoulders - kidney infection - ear infection - mood issues.
then Feb. 2015 things suddenly dropped off a cliff for both of us - fatigue, sensitivity to noise, light etc - neck pain, then gut issues - more fatigue - swelling of knees - rashes - livedo reticularis - my partner had full blow rages and anxiety attacks - then depression - fatigue was the most prominent thing for me.
so it could be that Lyme was there for a long time but more or less under control by the immune system - then bart came from the biting flies ( biting flies are a common route for bartonella infection - but a less common vector for Lyme ) and it took a while to take hold - then dragged us down ( this long gestation period is documented for bart and several other lyme and co pathogens )
or
it could have been the other way round and bart was there all along and lyme came later - the loss of use of the arms thing - that my partner had - is a classic lyme presentation - called radiculitis
or
even that both were more or less under control - and a virus hit us the day we both suddenly became fully ill - and triggered the collapse of immune function - then full blown lyme bart symptoms ( we both became fully ill with lyme like illness while on a short vacation - felt like an odd flu like illness at first - slight headache - then suddenly dog tired - then had to go to bed - never felt well since
its possible to make many theories fit the facts - but there are so many unanswered questions -
i do think that if we inspect our past there are often clues that point towards a long chain of events, including lifestyle factors like chronic stress, poor sleep, poor diet, perhaps trauma or other illness that form a part of the picture leading up to our eventual illness - for many of us.
its still hard to know which is driving most symptoms - i tend to lean towards bartonella - as so many symptoms fit with small vessel disease - and i have at least seen bartonella in my blood
whereas i only have the Armin labs positive lyme test as clear evidence of Lyme
apologies to dcd for the thread drift