Intestinal Bartonella

Without antibiotics, is it possible to get rid of Bartonella in the gut? I've got a 1:128 positive test on the Galaxy test, and my most severe symptoms are intestinal...

I don't know for sure, but I am thinking that perhaps the Bartonella is causing the gut problems.

I've done a lot of herbs, but never specifically focused on Houttuynia and Sida Acuta which seem to be the main Bartonella herbs.

What I wonder is, would herbal tinctures alone be enough to rid the bacteria from the gut? I really don't want to take antibiotics because I have gotten C Diff from antibiotics (which nearly killed me) and I am forever scarred. Antibiotics are really not an option to me. Would never want to get C Diff again.

I just hope that herbs are enough. I've taken so many powerful kill herbs but never specifically Houttuynia and Sida Acuta. Worth a shot?

Yep... Been on them a few days. We'll see.

Anybody else notice Bartonella mainly causing gut symptoms for them? I also have the rib pain at times which seems to be common, but I don't have many of the other typical Bart symptoms like burning soles of feet or skin stretch marks or whatever.

I have other symptoms too but the only one that seems to be common to Bart is the rib pain.

I had gastritis undiagnosed or misdiagnosed also misdiagnosed ibs, eating disorders etc.Neg. celiac disease but gluten give me hell.Gastritis is actually caused by bartonella and I read that most cases are cause by Bart and are misdiagnosed as gastritis. I've never showed Bart stretch marks. Burning on soles of feet as a kid and thinking it was sweaty feet or athletes foot huh. My misdiagnosed ibs and negative sibo test must have been sibo because rifaximin worked well for me plus the years of antibiotics use so I put 2 and 2 together and said it's sibo based off of symptoms. My stomach burns a lot and was misdiagnosed with Gerd and acid for years. I was hospitalized as a kid because they though I was suicidal and just was bulimic or anorexic. My stomach burned like hell off of nothing even when it wasn't acid. It was awful and I'm thinking it was bart.

my ex partner and i both had a lot of gut symptoms with bartonella

buhner writes that it can infect the endothelial cells lining the digestive tract
Burrascano wrote that it is a major cause of gastritis ( i had that also)
and there are scientific journal articles demonstrating that it can cause colitis and auto-immune liver disease

i have been treating with these herbs and several others amongst other things for some time now - and while i have improved significantly - the herbs on their own have not been enough for me to fully shake it ( i can still find it in my blood via thin blood smear and giemsa stain - as per T-labs - after 12months or more)

i am therefore layering in other treatments - including methylene blue, fibrinolytic enzymes and now oil of oregano - these later additions have all helped

i did have some improvement in overall symptoms from the herbs though - so i still think its not a bad place to start - and everyone responds differently so you could have more or less benefit than i have had.

for me it has become increasingly clear that there is no single treatment that will cure this illness
instead the only approach that has moved me forward is a combining many modalities of treatment, diet, lifestyle changes, exercise, nutrition, supplements, hormone correction etc etc
basically puling every lever available that moves me forward even one tiny step
which when combined, over time, results in significant improvement

i suspect that it is the same for the majority of people who have been ill with this thing for several years.
chronic bartonella is very hard to shake

Since I’ve been treating with Houttunyia, sida acuta, Japanese knotweed+ (All woodland essence) and oregano spirits (herb pharm) I’ve started herxing I suppose. Had a really bad headache for a good 24 hours or so. Have also been feeling sort of hot sometimes. So, perhaps these tinctures are hitting something.

My rib pain has also reduced/disappeared for now which is interesting as it was bothering me for quite a while before starting the tinctures.

MedicalNerd said...
So glad you posted this. I have peripheral neuropathy as well and it's extreme that my brain feels its on fire . I've also felt it in my stomach or chest and mistaken it for acid or heartburn. I had the burning in my feet. The rib pain is bad. It came on suddenly and was like a knife. It passes soon enough. I had POTS for years now and I've never had those stretch marks though. Huh interested as most Bart has the same stretch marks. Wonder if it has to do with what type of Bart maybe? I came bk positive for Bart henslae.

The other symptoms are bartonella, but the acid or heartburn I associate with borrelia. I've been dealing with that a lot lately and it's clearly associated with Lyme herx. I suspect it's due to borrelia disrupting vitamin D, which affects stomach acid production.

lymegirly said...
Hello friends,
What is peripheral neuropathy?

following this conversation as I am concerned i’m having a relapse and it’s been a few years so I am feeling a little rusty … lll make a post soon asking Q’s ….

thnx <3

Peripheral neuropathy is caused by damage to the nerves.
Can cause weakness, numbness, pain,
Peripheral neuropath is a result of damage to the nerves located outside of the brain and spinal cord often causes weakness, numbness and pain, usually in the hands and feet. It can also affect other areas and body functions including circulation and digestion.

It can get better in time but not always.

My pointer finger on left hand is still numb

NorthCountry said...
I’ve heard both thiamine and taurine recommended for neuropathy… if I remember correctly

Taurine is one of my recommended (DrJ) supplements to take.

He recommended I take these:

Taurine, magnesium, EFA, curcumin and Quercetin.

Good question about the stretch marks. I've never had any stretch marks or some other classic Bart symptoms. Have burning feet, but I don't know if that is from the autoimmune or Bart or if Bart is causing the burning. Small fiber neuropathy causes the burning, classically, and large fiber, which I tested positive for, causes things like loss of ability to feel vibration on a tuning fork, numbness, loss of muscle, and other symptoms. But it usually isn't related to burning feeling in feet. Yet, I tested negative by skin biopsy for small fiber, which is related to burning and can be caused by bart. That's why I'm wondering if it is Bart, and it would be no surprise if that is causing your stomach issues, North Country.

Point is treating is probably best way to find out. I also have major stomach, which I have figured were autoimmune related and may be, but treating the Bart is a way to, possibly, rule out Bart.

Girlie said...

lymegirly said...
Hello friends,
What is peripheral neuropathy?

following this conversation as I am concerned i’m having a relapse and it’s been a few years so I am feeling a little rusty … lll make a post soon asking Q’s ….

thnx <3

Peripheral neuropathy is caused by damage to the nerves.
Can cause weakness, numbness, pain,
Peripheral neuropath is a result of damage to the nerves located outside of the brain and spinal cord often causes weakness, numbness and pain, usually in the hands and feet. It can also affect other areas and body functions including circulation and digestion.

It can get better in time but not always.

My pointer finger on left hand is still numb

Peripheral neuropathy also causes burning sensations which have to do with our nerves. Tingling, numbness but I feel like people don't really mention the burning. My neurologist actually told me it's part of neuropathy and wanted to prescribe me gabapentin for it. Lack of magnesium can also cause this and lack of vitamin b. My b6 was 2x its levels which can also cause neuropathy and nerve damage.

PCR of blood is known to be very poor sensitivity for bartonella - perhaps around 25% only
as per work by Breitschwerdt et al

the main reason is that bartonella is mostly in the tissues - and when in the blood is not homogenously mixed with the blood - but occurs in sporadic clumps which may or may not make it into the sample.

this is why Galaxy go to the trouble of triple blood draw on different days - culture the resulting blood in a special medium for bartonella ( it will not grow well in standard media) - and then pcr the results of that culture - even after these many steps, their paper can only claim 49% sensitivity - so that shows you how poor standard single draw PCR will be

NorthCountry said...
That’s weird I did Galaxy Bartonella and only 1 blood draw, I believe

they have a range of tests
some are single draw of blood - some are triple draw - you choose and you pay accordingly

the most sensitive well documented test for bartonella available right now to patients is galaxy's triple draw digital droplet ePCR - this is the one the published a paper showing 49% sensitivity
this is still a low number in absolute terms
but compared to serology or straight PCR of blood its probably around 2-3x better

its not cheap though

i have had success with another direct technique for detecting bartonella - via thin blood smear and giemsa stain with lab grade microscope - see the link in my signature for details

this is the same method as Dr M uses to track progress in his patients via T-Labs - but is very time consuming to do properly and for this reason not viable for most commercial labs

Garzie said...
my ex partner and i both had a lot of gut symptoms with bartonella

buhner writes that it can infect the endothelial cells lining the digestive tract
Burrascano wrote that it is a major cause of gastritis ( i had that also)
and there are scientific journal articles demonstrating that it can cause colitis and auto-immune liver disease

i have been treating with these herbs and several others amongst other things for some time now - and while i have improved significantly - the herbs on their own have not been enough for me to fully shake it ( i can still find it in my blood via thin blood smear and giemsa stain - as per T-labs - after 12months or more)

i am therefore layering in other treatments - including methylene blue, fibrinolytic enzymes and now oil of oregano - these later additions have all helped

i did have some improvement in overall symptoms from the herbs though - so i still think its not a bad place to start - and everyone responds differently so you could have more or less benefit than i have had.

for me it has become increasingly clear that there is no single treatment that will cure this illness
instead the only approach that has moved me forward is a combining many modalities of treatment, diet, lifestyle changes, exercise, nutrition, supplements, hormone correction etc etc
basically puling every lever available that moves me forward even one tiny step
which when combined, over time, results in significant improvement

i suspect that it is the same for the majority of people who have been ill with this thing for several years.
chronic bartonella is very hard to shake

Can you give me a little info on how you corrected hormones?? My doc was talking about this but not sure where to start as a female has lots more hormones then men? What hormones, symptoms?