I'm sorry but I have an issue with every mold expert telling you to move to a mold free building

Just, where the hell are you supposed to find a mold free building?

I rent in a building. I work in a building. I cannot and probably will not be able to afford my own home. There is no remediation plan, there is no not going to work, it is unlikely I will even find a remote job, and even if I do, it will be take place in a building I can only afford to rent. Landlords exist mostly to scrap as much money from tenants as possible, not to take the upmost care of their homes.

It is completely unfeasible and irresponsible to tell someone they can ONLY get better if they remove themselves from a moldy building, they they have to toss all of their things, even buy a rental home. I read Jill Crista's "Break the Mold" and all through the "You are the healer" website, among other sites, and I'm pissed. These same people, mold literate doctors I have read about, all of them, push this narrative that 85% or more of buildings are moldy. 85%! One comment I read on here said that even all cars get moldy very quickly. So what the hell is one supposed to do?! I feel like I should just give up and just accept I will be sick forever if I absolutely MUST NEED TO DEFINITELY find a mold-free place to live.

I just, my intuition is screaming at me that something is not right here. You are not going to be able to realistically rent a place if you need to test each one for mold. Forget the affordability--the landlord will likely rent to someone else before you can even get your results back. That's how fast many markets are, especially right now, with housing so expensive.

And even if you owned your home, most people, where will they go in the meantime? A rental? A hotel? Yeah, some good that will do when 85% of all buildings are mold-sick.

There has got to be a way to recover without moving to the cleanest building. I get it if there is very visible water damage or you can see the mold, but that is not most buildings. Can't be.

Please, someone back me up here. I don't need this nocebo. Tell me I can get better without having to get rid of every single item I own and succeed in the impossible effort of finding a mold free building. I am doing this all on my own. I have no one. If it's not possible I don't even want to bother trying. But it does not make sense to me that you have to go some place completely mold free. It does not make sense to me at all.

Hi Girlie,

The answer is...I don't know. I have lived so many places in the last few years I can't count, all due to bad experiences with roommates or landlords. I literally cannot afford to move anymore. I tested positive for mold, I'm sure I picked it up somewhere, but the point of my post is that it doesn't seem to matter if most buildings have mold in them. Not to mention, these same mold literate people push that a lot of indoor mold is invisible, so there's not really a way to test a place before I rent another place, even if I could afford it.

The whole things seems pointless. And as you said, let's say if I have mold here and had the money to fix it, and the landlord's permission, I would still have to go somewhere else to live. Somewhere else, where most places are moldy.

This does not include if the issue happens to be my workplace. Literally zero way of knowing that.

Again, I rent. I do not own my home. So this seems completely impossible unless you have a lot of money or resources or family, none of which I have.

Thank you, The Dude Abides. It most certainly helps. And I feel a bit better even knowing someone out there understands my anger around this.

I'm familiar with those over on the TMS forums/the work of John Sarno, and have healed my self of pain induced by the mind that was created as a means of dealing with trauma, so some part of me wonders if the sensitivity some people have is actually caused more by the mind than anything else, and mold is just the thing their minds focus on being the cause.

Still, again, your story helps a lot. I know I don't have one of those mold sensitivities where I can sense it as soon as I enter a room, nor do I have MCS. So, some hope has returned. Thank you.

It's not much, but it's my pleasure to chat with you about it.

Like you and many others here, I've gone through a range of emotions about being unwell, including anger. The five stages of grief are given as Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.

These days, I seem to bounce between anger, depression, and ... ? ... something else. It's not acceptance. Maybe it's surrender. They seem similar, but I view "acceptance" as being enlightened and consciously making the decision to accept things the way they are. By contrast, I tend to view "surrender" as just that ... giving up, because I'm too mentally, physically, and emotionally drained to continue. (Mostly, I just want to sleep.)

But, eventually, the fog will temporarily lift from my brain and I'll have brief flashes of clarity where I have some semblance of hope. Or, at least, a reduction in despair. Then, I crash again.

As you unfortunately know, even a single aspect of illness can be mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and financially overwhelming on its own. Then, combine numerous issues (multiple illnesses, unemployment, no one to help, lack of energy, chronic pain, expensive and questionable pills and procedures, conflicting expert opinions, sleep apnea, anxiety, housing insecurity, food allergies, etc.) and it can seem too much to bear.

Just a couple of years ago, I would have done a better job of offering some encouragement and advice. Now, I'm sorry to say this is about the best I can muster:

• Try creating a plan of some sort (it's okay if it turns out to be wrong, because you can try something else)
  
• Break down the plan into prioritized phases. Only focus on one phase at a time, in order of importance.
  
• Within each phase, ensure the steps are: (1) prioritized, and (2) small enough to accomplish
  
• No matter the phase or step, always complete them in order of importance. Reorder them, as needed.
  
• Have your plan in writing (physical, digital, or both), so you have something to follow and can monitor progress

In forcing my tired, foggy brain to think hard enough about these steps to (hopefully) be coherent, I realize this advice is for me, too. Perhaps even more so. Since being unwell, I've changed from being proactive and staying on top of things to procrastinating and avoiding a lot of things. Often, it's only through the anxiety of a looming deadline that I'm able to drag myself into action to complete a task ... and, only at the minimum level required.

After getting up and moving around a bit, I've managed to gather a bit of energy. So, I'll conclude with the following three items:

1. Thank you for mentioning The Mindbody Syndrome (TMS) Forum. While I was familiar with Dr. Sarno at a very high level (it started with the 20/20 segment about him), I've never read any of his books and I had never heard about TMS Forum. The fact that you healed yourself of pain that was induced by the mind as a means of dealing with trauma is a remarkable feat.

2. As for whether or not (mold, chemical, etc.) sensitivity might be caused more by the mind than anything else, I think it's possible. The Success Stories for DNRS (Dynamic Neural Retraining System) suggest a myriad of conditions have been improved or even reversed through "...the principles of neuroplasticity to help reverse limbic system impairment in the brain, and to regulate a maladapted stress response involved with many chronic illnesses."

3. If you're not familiar with Brenda Cosentino (a.k.a. "Real Food Rebel"), you may find some healing inspiration in her story. Her website is https://realfoodrebel.com.

Okay, that's it, my brain is at 0.3% battery remaining. That should be enough to shower and brush my teeth before bed.

TTFN,
The Dude
.

Post Edited (The Dude Abides) : 1/9/2023 10:04:12 PM (GMT-8)

i hear your concern - and frustration

my view from a 30,000ft level is:
while mold toxins definitely are not good for anyone - and we do seem to have people who are super reactive to mold - to the point that they start having symptoms the moment they step into a moldy environment

but, for the rest of the population(those that do not react instantly) it really does seem to be a very grey area - in terms of whether mold is actually driving their symptoms

there is so much overlap between mold symptoms and lyme an co-infections symptoms
and there are such major problems with the accuracy of testing for both mold and lyme and co-infections its extremely hard to tell which might be driving symptoms.

for example - ref lyme and co
- many studies show conventional testing for lyme disease miss something 50% to 80% of cases
- testing for babesia and bartonella are thought to be even less sensitive - missing perhaps 75% of cases

and then on mold testing

- on blood and urine tests - this seems to be in the wild west of testing - the majority of mold tests posted here seem to be positive - and there are posts by at least one member who reports speaking with the CEO of one of the main urine mold test companies who stated the vast majority of tests they do for mold come back positive - which raises a BIG RED FLAG.

- there are also many practitioners advocating various forms of "pre-test challenge methods" - to provoke a positive response - but which were not done by the testing companies when they did their test validations - so these add another layer of uncertainty, and positive bias into any individuals results.

- on building tests - these again seem hard to relate to an objective standard - and even if positive, tell a person nothing about whether the mold detected is actually driving their illness - just that there are molds present - which as you state - are in the majority of buildings

the life impact of going all-in on a mold diagnosis is so huge, i think it would be prudent to try to rule out infection or other potential causes as the main cause of illness first - and look for secondary or even 3 forms of confirmatory evidence to support a mold illness diagnosis - before moving house, discarding all belongings etc etc. i definitely would not do so based on a single blood or urine test ( or multiple tests from the same provider) or the advice of one practitioner)

this is of course not easy, to do this one might need to combine and interpret several different diagnostic methods for each possibility and weigh the overall picture provided in order to give oneself the best chance of navigating the puzzle - but this will still be cheaper than moving home multiple times
for example:

Infection
full workup of dagnostic testing by conventional PCP - if not done already
reputable tick borne disease testing - eg Igenex testing for lyme, bart, babs as minimum
blood microscopy as alternate diagnostic tool - does not reply on antibodies
therapeutic trial - bart /lyme meds
therapeutic trial - babesia meds
therapeutic trial - biofilm agents - eg lumbrokinase or xylitol ( both expected to generate flare if inf )

Mold
blood /urine mold toxin tests - 2 diff providers - strictly following the manufacturers instructions
blood marker tests - looking for supportive markers
building tests - again as per manuf instructions and interpretations
therapeutic trial - 2-weeks away - in new (hopefully clean environment)
therapeutic trial - toxin binders

think in terms of as many different forms of evidence, different providers, different angles as possible to minimise the reliance on any one test result and help counter confirmation bias. then weigh evidence that contradicts working hypothesis as well as evidence that confirms it before drawing conclusions.

we have all had to navigate these type of diagnostic maze to some degree - its is a huge challenge, with no quick or easy solution for most of us.

good luck!!!

I agree that suggesting that anyone with a mold infection has to live/work/play only in mold free areas.... Uhm, in the summer, lots of places where I live (northern Arkansas) have mold growing everywhere - outside!! It's not like a person can just never go out.

I believe that those with a mold infection will do much better finding ways to mitigate the impact though, just like we do with many other infections. Maybe a person needs to wear a mask, at least in certain areas in the home. Or maybe they need to invest in a good air purifier for mold. I'm sure there are some that need to actually move, but the number that are in a position to move are MUCH less.

I was told that I shouldn't go outside much because I'm a tick magnet -
during summers I can have between 5 - 15 ticks per week. That's because I live to be outdoors. If I had to stay inside all the time, I simply wouldn't be able to carry on.

I was still bed bound the summer of 2021, and managed to get my first ever bulls eye rash..... while bed bound!!!

So, what to do? Mitigate my exposure. Use deet spray, essential oils and anything else that will help me avoid at least a few of those ticks! And, of course, be quick to act if there are any signs I managed to get a tick borne infection, yet again.

As far as what those experts say - well, all the experts swore I would never heal using herbs alone. I even had a Lyme herbalist tell me there was no way I healed my infections with herbs alone. Well, here I sit, with zero active infections. Only the damage that was left over from having those infections go untreated (by the experts!) for 37 years.

I do hope you find the things that help YOU.

I feel extremely comfortable saying that each of us really does need to find our own way through this. No one has all the exact same issues as someone else, if for no other reason than we have different genes expressing different qualities/influences on our body. So, while we can definitely come together, brainstorm, compare, and find support, we must always remember there is no one right way to treat for any of us.

It'll be nice when the doctors actually realize that there's no "cookie cutter” medicine that will really works - and not just with these diseases! Every part of medicine and medicinal therapy is that way! (Okay, end of that rant... for now).

Yes, I'm very well acquainted with Montana Farmacy. A wonderful company IMHO. But, as I alluded to in my last post, at this point in time, I have yet to find any of the natural bug repellents that will keep enough of those little buggers away from me like deet - although I will be trialing cedar oil this year (please don't let me be allergic! Lol). But, I'm still hoping to find something more natural. Maybe the cedar oil will be it for me?

And thank you for your much too kind words. After what I lived through, and what I'm still having to live through because these infections caused too much damage to my body, I feel a deep need to help others that are stuck at some point in their own healing journey. If I can ever help anyone, please feel free to email me by clicking on my forum name, which takes you to my profile, and there you can look around and find my email address.

I do not have all the answers, but if someone thinks my insight might be useful, I'm here.

I was going to waste money on someone to clean the mold out but there's no way in hell I'm doing that. It's the same as moving, if not you're spending more money to have someone clean it out professionally. I thinking cleaning it ourselves it cheaper but wear a mask of course. Tilex changed my situation tremendously. I even saw mold growing on my bathroom ceiling amd sprayed it all gone now. My bathroom window sill is all paint cracked and mold along with bathroom window mini blinds. Who the hell would make a bathroom window where the shower is , it's basically inside the shower ? My dish drainer even gets moldy where you put the wet dishes to dry. My car got flooded in a storm and had like 3 inches of water , I let it air dry but mold smell came apparently . It's always somewhere. When I used tilex, no more mold smell and the air was so much cleaner and breathed way better. My nose would constantly itch in the shower but now that we sprayed it itch free. I wouldn't waste money on a professional to clean the mold, unless I was a home owner, which I may never be as long as we keep spending money on mold removal and llmd lol.

rs1994,

Thank you for sharing that. Are you okay with sharing what city you found to have lower mold? Is it a city that has a lot of newer buildings, or have you found older buildings there, too, that seem pretty clean to you?

Do you have reactions when you enter a moldy building that alert you that you’re being exposed?

Thanks for sharing. I don't know if I'm sensitive enough to need that at the moment, but it's something I'll keep in mind.