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Posted 8/2/2011 3:22 PM (GMT 0)
so given that i am still undiagnosed with a myriad of symptoms, i started trying acupuncture treatments. and i twitch a lot during the treatments! my first acupuncturist said that she only saw that with her MS patients which is interesting. yesterday i had another acupuncture treatment and during a twitch and yawn, had a sudden movement in my body (those of you who have done acupuncture, know that moving is bad and causes the needles to often hurt) that caused a needle in my head to have awful pain and cause an intense rushing/burning sensation that traveled from my head to toes. i freaked out by the unpleasant sensation and the doctor took out the needles. my concern is that a day later, i still have some burning sensation traveling in my upper body and feel worse. now im not sure if this is all related to the acupuncture or possibly partly unrelated- are intense burning sensations common with lyme disease? has anyone tried acupuncture and experienced similar discomfort? very strange, but i thought id ask!
Posted 8/2/2011 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
HI Teeners!
I have been doing acupuncture for a little over one year now as part of my LD treatments. I know exactly what you mean about the moving when needles are in a muscle group!! Yowie!! I get the giggles when my acu doc places a needle in the upper part of my body and my feet react!!! It just gives me a little giggle!!! LOL! smilewinkgrin

I would have to say that what you are experiencing is most likely a reaction to not only where the needle was placed, but the stress you experienced while the needle was still placed. Kind of like a herx reaction in a way.

I would suggest that you try to do a little detoxing to see if that doesn't help. Are you dry skin brushing? If your skin is a little over-sensitive, this will go a very long way to helping you to better tolerate the acupuncture treatments.

After a few months of acupuncture treatments, those burning sensations really lessened for me.

I hope this helps!
Trav
Posted 8/2/2011 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
the intense burning sensation i felt is throughout areas that i didnt even have needles, is this normal? it didnt feel like the localized burning and itching that ive had before, but more like a rush of blood/burning sensation from head to toe. very strange- im wondering if it maybe aggravated a nerve when i moved suddenly?
Posted 8/2/2011 8:59 PM (GMT 0)

teeners said...
the intense burning sensation i felt is throughout areas that i didnt even have needles, is this normal? it didnt feel like the localized burning and itching that ive had before, but more like a rush of blood/burning sensation from head to toe. very strange- im wondering if it maybe aggravated a nerve when i moved suddenly?

Wow! I've never talked with anyone else who has had that same sensation! I get that sensation every time I get startled - even a little bit! It's body wide and sometimes is even painful. After trying to figure it out and what the cause might be, I have been able to figure out that it seems to follow my nerve pathways. I attribute it to my TBI's, not the acupuncture because I have had those sensations for many years before ever trying acupuncture.

I hope this helps to shed a little light on what is going on.
Posted 8/2/2011 9:32 PM (GMT 0)
I've heard it said that Acupuncture relies on a properly functioning nervous system to work correctly. Lyme dysrupts the nervous system. Whenever I get acupuncture, my RSD comes back in my foot. This is not normal, and should not happen, and the less experienced acupuncturists don't understand how it can happen. But it could be a herx type reaction to the acupuncture stimulation of the nerve pathways, too - I don't know for sure. I just know I cannot have acupuncture anymore.
Posted 8/5/2011 9:07 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler,
Ive been considering canceling my next acupuncture treatment given the strange blood rush and awful week after the last treatment. Do you thinks its possible for the acupuncture to be hurting me in anyway? Ive always had strange body twitches and uncomfortable body sensations during it and am wondering if possibly my CNS is too sensitive for the treatment now? I have heard that it is a very relaxing treatment for many, unfortunately, i notice myself dreading my appointments! You said you use acupuncture for your treatment so I was wondering if you had any input as to whether this is a normal reaction to the treatment and also how acupuncture has helped your lymes? Do you use if for joint issues?
Thanks!!
Posted 8/6/2011 12:00 AM (GMT 0)
HI Teeners,
For me, acupuncture has been the only thing that can control my pain - especially my joint and bone pain. What style of acupuncture are you receiving? I am getting Chinese Acupuncture with a very sensitive woman. She understands that I have a great deal of pain, among many other symptoms. Acupuncture is the only thing that has calmed my CNS symptoms. The Western meds only sort of kind of masked my CNS symptoms.

How long have you been receiving acupuncture? When I first started - over a year ago now- I would have a lot of strange feelings, twitches and spasms. I had to have my acu doc remove needles sometimes, although that doesn't happen but once in a while now.

Can you talk with your acu doc? Some are much more approachable than others - mine is very approachable - she is an old hippie!!! LOL!! I relax when I walk through the door of her office as I know how much I need these treatments. For me, it's not a matter of which route I want to take for treatments - abx didn't do me any favors, and I like to recommend Acupuncture and Modern or Traditional Chinese Medicine - or any other holistic approach- as it considers the entire body, not just the parts complaining the loudest.

I have found that building up to being able to dry skin brush every day has helped my skin better tolerate the acupuncture.

There is a lot of misinformation about Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine. Here are a few points that I copied and pasted from an excellent source of info, which can be found here: /www.acufinder.com/acupuncture.html

Acupuncture is a method of encouraging the body to promote natural healing and improve function. This is done by inserting sterilized, stainless-steel needles (that are as fine as a human hair) into specific points located near or on the surface of the skin which have the ability to alter various biochemical and physiological conditions in order to treat a wide variety of illnesses.

Acupuncture points are areas of designated electrical sensitivity that have been shown to be effective in the treatment of specific health problems. They have been mapped out by the Chinese over a period of over 2000 years.

Qi - The basic foundation for Oriental medicine is that there is a life energy flowing through the body which is called "Qi" (pronounced chee). This energy flows through the body on channels known as meridians that connect all of our major organs. According to Chinese medical theory, illness arises when the cyclical flow of Qi in the meridians becomes unbalanced or is blocked.

Please feel free to ask me more questions, if you think I might be able to help!
Posted 8/6/2011 2:51 AM (GMT 0)
Does anyone here specifically use acupuncture to strengthen/improve/protect their liver or kidneys? I've tried it for joint pain before, with no luck, but I'm about to start on mepron and methinks my liver will need all the support it can get. Cheers!
Posted 8/6/2011 12:23 PM (GMT 0)
I think that when you're just starting Lyme treatment, your body is working hard at getting rid of Lyme die-off toxins.....and.....it's getting used to antibiotics, etc......and it's trying to heal.

Throwing accupunture or even massage into the mix (too soon) can IMO, only aggravate symptoms and cause a herx by giving your body too many signals to deal with at one time.

I know we're all in a big hurry to get well, see our symptoms lessen and disappear and feel no pain. But early on I personally think it's best to relax, go with the ebb and flow--- allow abx or other treatments to work.....

..... and leave accupuncture and massage until much later.

I didn't start accupunture until my body 'spoke to me' (after many months of ABX treatment) and let me know that I was ready to try it. And it did help at that point.

For me, accupunture greatly relieved the nagging muscle pain that my Lyme treatment hadn't quite reached-- so to speak. I knew I could use some help.

There were certain places the needles aggravated with a burning pain that was not the same as the 'feel good' pain other needles produced.

My accupuncturist removed those needles and we don't put them in those places anymore. At least not yet.

The body can speak a great language when it comes to accupuncture. It will say yes to certain needles and it will say no. Best to listen carefully-- when you have Lyme-- and you will help to guide your accupuncturist.

Also I think it's important to go to an accupunturist who is very familiar with Lyme.
Posted 8/6/2011 1:50 PM (GMT 0)
I guess I see thing differently than most here. It was the acupuncture/Chinese Meds that saved me. Western Medicine made me very, very ill. Acupuncture is all about working with the body, as it's a Holistic medicine, meaning it sees the body as a whole. There is no running around trying to find someone to look at your eyes, someone else to check out your joints, someone else to check out what's going on with your heart and yet another to see what's happening in your intestines. Then trying to get the all on the same page. I have one doctor (She is a Master in Acupuncture, Chinese Medicine, Western Herbology as well as certified in many other modalities).

Acupuncture alone is scientifically proven to help the body detox, to treat pain effectively, spastic colon and colitis, and even help strengthen the immune system. Here is a link to an article on WebMD, and although I don't agree with everything said there, there is still some good info:www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/guide/arthritis-acupuncture

Cycle Vancouver,
I use acupuncture and Chinese Medicine as well as Western Herbology to strengthen my liver/kidney/gallbladder system. Without it I would be up a creek with all of the stress on my liver and kidneys - I no longer have a gall bladder thanks to Lyme.

It is incredibly important to find a good practitioner. In order to treat something of the magnitude that we deal with, you will need to see someone who has practiced only acupuncture (rather than going to a Chiro or other Doc who has added acupuncture to their practice), and preferably someone who has been doing so for many, many years. You should also find someone who is a Doctor or Master in Chinese Medicine -whether it's Traditional or Modern. My Acu Doc is a Master in both Traditional and Modern Chinese Medicine, which is preferable with what we deal with.

If you have tried acupuncture and didn't find the relief or the healing - then you have been using the wrong practitioner. It really is that simple, I promise. Although Acupuncture isn't for everyone. There are no quick fixes offered. They can treat symptoms easily enough and you will find relief if your practitioner has a clue as to what they are doing, but the root cause needs to be addressed. This is where the need for a Master or at least a Doctor in Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine is required - they have the experience to properly treat these infections. If that doc is only a Doc in Traditional Chinese Medicine, things get a bit tricky, but that can be easily taken care of as well - Decades ago there was no Lyme or other tick-borne illnesses in China, as they had almost no trees, which means less birds, which means less ticks being carried and dropped. At least that's the way I understand it.

In short, the right practitioner can enhance your recovery, or be the reason for your recovery - your choice- but please don't discount the power of the body to want to heal. Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine are very, very powerful when the right practitioner is being used.

BTW - I am not the least bit upset here! I just felt the need for a bit of an explanation. I did not set out to follow the path that I have chosen for my healing without checking things out as well as my Lyme-fogged brain could. smilewinkgrin
Posted 2/16/2023 11:30 PM (GMT 0)
Does Traveler, or anyone else here, have an opinion about how frequently to do acupuncture for lyme? I've done about 6 acupuncture sessions, and felt surprising improvements almost every time!

I ask because my current acupuncture doctor, who I love, only wanted to give me 1 appointment per month. He has agreed to move me up to 3 weeks instead of every 4 weeks. But I'd rather go weekly. Should I seek a doctor that can take me more often?

The reason is that after acupuncture, I feel OK for once in my life. I mean, I feel *good* which happens, almost never in the past 12 years. But the good only lasts for about 24 hours after each session. It is so shocking to me to feel good. Generally I feel pretty horrible and I'm unable to function very well. But on acupuncture days, I can actually go into the grocery store and not feel so sick that I'm afraid.

To have this feeling, I would give just about anything. I would sell my house to pay for the acupuncture, if I could have this feeling more often.
Posted 2/16/2023 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
PS: Also, there was one time, one session where I did feel *sicker* for a day after the acupuncture. I *think* it might have been a herx. The doctor did a more intense, longer acupuncutre session and I think it made me herx. So I'm wondering from Traveler or others opinions: do you "need" to herx a little bit? Or should I ask him to back off the intensity a bit for future sessions?
Posted 2/17/2023 2:39 PM (GMT 0)
I am a huge acupuncture fan.

I had a practitioner who would treat me, and I'd feel steady (not dizzy) and actually hungry (despite gastroparesis) for two hours after the treatment. There were no other times that I felt okay, and without those two hours of eating after appointments, I honestly don't think I would have survived the gastroparesis years. I had other acupuncturists who were good - helpful with headaches, pain, anxiety - but just that one really reversed some of the gnarliest symptoms.

So I would say keep seeing the monthly practitioner because not all acupuncturists are created equal, but find another practitioner or practitioners for those other weeks of the month. Community acupuncture can be a good low-cost alternative if you are comfortable sharing space with other patients during your treatment.

After some treatments, I would have a "healing response," feeling crummy and toxic with a particular type of headache afterward. It usually lasted for about a day when that response happened, and I attributed it to mobilizing stagnant energy and toxins, and relaxing tense muscles (which releases lactic acid and makes the formerly-tense muscles sore). I don't think it was technically a herx, and I did not consider it a problem. Sometimes a spot would be alarmingly sore when the needle went in, and my practitioners described those as spots with blockages; they would feel bruised afterward. Occasionally I'd get nerve damage, particularly in the hyper-sensitive nerves of my feet and ankles, so I'd ask the practitioner to avoid those areas for a few months afterward. I always considered my treatments worthwhile.

Overall I found acupuncture extremely helpful, and my practitioners all had a great holistic perspective on health. Some were just better than others, almost like they had an intuitive sense of my body and could communicate with it in ways I couldn't.
Posted 2/17/2023 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, thanks for the responsesmile I will check out community acupuncture in my area. Do you think there is a risk that a less-experienced practitioner could actually do damage?

My current practitioner does have a reputation of excellence in our area. I've been paying more than I really "should" on my budget -- but like you said, there really are no other times I feel "OK". That one day per month helps me get through the rest of the month, psychologically.

Thanks also for sharing about your "healing response."

PS: I was amazed when you mentioned your dizziness, because my own dizziness has been lessened too, in a noticeable way, only for about 3-4 hours after the acupuncture session. At first I could hardly believe it. But it has happened after every treatment so far. I have major appetite issues, too. I find it hard to eat, truly. And then I feel weak on days when I can't bring myself to eat. (Contrary to common belief, it isn't a good look on the physique. Protruding stomach and no curves left in the "right" places!)

Anyway, sorry to drift off topic. Thanks again very muchsmile
-Elizabeth
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