HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Sleeping MUCH MUCH better with GABA supplement (Phenibut)!! YAY!!!!

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/9/2011 3:36 AM (GMT 0)
I had asked a week or so ago if anyone had tried Gaba supplements for insomnia. Well, my supplements arrived and they work!!! My heart has stopped racing and my brain has slowed down too. Prior to taking them I was sometimes awake for days with not more than a few hours of broken sleep each night. I felt like I had a constant adrenalin rush; like I'd just had 3 cups of coffee (but I stay off ALL caffeine!). So this is HUGE for me to be sleeping... I've even successfully taken TWO naps!!

I'm still waking up maybe 1 or 2 times a night, but that's nothing compared to the sleepless nights I was having. I'm taking 600mg (2 pills) of Phenitropic (Phenibut supplement made by Biotics) each night before bed. I also tend to feel more relaxed if I take another during the day, but I haven't been consistent with that just yet. I'm still in the process of feeling out what dosage is best for me.

Interestingly, I'm also more achy. Now, hear me. I don't think it's the Gaba that is making me ache at all. What I think is happening is that I'm consciously "feeling" the pain I was unconsciously "feeling" all along- before, with all that adrenalin rushing through me, I was basically numbed to it. I mean, I wasn't numb to the absolute exhaustion and extreme anxiety, but the pain wasn't the debilitating part. Adrenalin is what comes with a "fight or flight" reaction, and part of it's job is to make you NOT feel pain so that you can do the unimaginable in order to save yourself, right? So now I'm more consciously aware of my pain which I take as a blessing. It's much easier to "listen" to your body and give it what it needs when you can "feel" it! After the first day on the phenibut I walked downstairs and announced to my husband with great glee, "I'm totally achy, really sleepy and can FEEL myself!! This is great!!!" LOL... In addition to the physical, it is helping me feel more "connected" to myself it that makes sense. Like, adrenaline gives you this sort of out-of-body type feel. Without the caffeine rush, I just feel more whole (something I think every Lyme patient longs to feel, no?)

Here's a link I found interesting:

http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/10/thoughts-on-psych-drugs-for-lyme.html

It's a lyme doc's blog where he discussing different meds that are frequently prescribed for lyme patients, and why some work and others don't. This COMPLETELY explains why SSRIs, Melatonin and 5-HTP all backfired for me. These all work on your seratonin neurotransmitters, and that's simply the wrong thing to tweak in most lyme patients. Gaba, which is the neurotransmitter that Klonopin, Lyrica and lots of others work on, is much more effective as this is the brain chemical that is most affected by lyme. Too bad more doctors don't know this! What the article writes about Lyme patients' reactions to Seratonin drugs was EXACTLY my experience....

What I'm taking is a natural form of Gaba that apparently contains whatever protein is needed for it to cross the blood-brain barrier. You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut

I believe there are lots of companies that make it, but for now I'm using the one my LD suggested (Phenitropic by Biotics).

Anyways, just wanted to share because I know many of you are dealing with sleep issues, restlessness, jitters, anxiety, etc. Also for those on Klonopin, this may be a good natural alternative....
Posted 10/9/2011 2:18 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for sharing this info..... I be investigating this for sure. I have been taking a low dose of clonazapam (Klonopin) for the past three years and I started taking bioidenitcal progesterone several months ago (compounded-oral). I react to so many chemicals/meds that any meds I take have to be compounded.

I take numerous supplements and the majority come from a company called Kirkman Labs because they are hypoallergenic. These are the only ones I can tolerate at this point.

Wonderful news that you are sleeping well with it!!

Posted 10/9/2011 9:22 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds great!  Is it pricey?

I too have a terrible time sleeping.  Getting to sleep and staying asleep.  I get the adrenaline rushes as well, and it makes it impossible to relax and get into the sleep mode.  I take 1/2 a zoplicone tablet or if I am really prickly, buzzy and electric, I take a clonazopam.  Still I do not sleep through the night.  Naps are also impossible.  I wish I could just take the odd nap as I know it would make me feel so much better.  I am so exhausted but cannot sleep. 

I am going to ask my LLND about this one!

Thanks woodlandfrolicker

Posted 10/10/2011 1:05 AM (GMT 0)
Siesta, I hear you on the chemical sensitivities. I was getting major side effects from everything chemical I tried for sleep. What a mess... So far so good with the Gaba, though I know what works one month may or may not work the next, so I'm just taking it a day at a time. All I know is that right now I'm catching up on some long needed sleep! :)

Hopeful Maxine, I paid $35 (I think) including S&H for a bottle of 60 pills. I'm taking 2-3 a day. I wouldn't be surprised if there are cheaper varieties out there though! I haven't yet done that research. If I do, I'll post some links. If you try it, please let me know if it works!! I can seriously commiserate with you... there's little worse then being utterly exhausted and completely energized at the same time. There's just no relief!! I wonder how many years have been taken off my life by all that time with no rest..... not to mention the emotional/spiritual distress it causes.... and how little understanding you get from others. How many times would I hear, "Well, hopefully tomorrow you'll be able to catch up on sleep." If only they knew....!
Posted 10/10/2011 6:15 AM (GMT 0)
Isn't that the truth!!!  I don't think anyone quite understands how dibilitating it is to not ever get a good nights sleep.  Well, maybe my husband understands.  He has gone through so much with me.  I keep reminding him that the marriage vows did say through sickness and in health!  He certainly is being tested, bless him.  I don't know what I would do without him.  That is something I am so grateful for.  A kind, caring, nurturing and understanding spouse.  Some days I'm sure he would like to run for the hills!!  We must give props to our famlies who help us get through those really tough days!!

Is the sleeping aid simply called Gaba? 

Thanks for the info woodlandfrolicker!!

Posted 10/12/2011 6:04 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry for the delay in responding- my computer was having some issues!

Anyways, the product I'm taking is called "Phenitropic" which is made by "Biotics". It is a form of "Phenibut" which is a "derivative of the naturally occurring inhibitory neurotransmitter γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA)".

So yeah... it's Gaba, but it's phenibut, but it's phenitropic...haha...

As I mentioned, lots of different companies make a variety of "phenibut". I just did a little research and it looks like it comes in both pill and powder form. Some brands get better reviews than others. Also, many people speak of needing to up your dose over time and that coming off of it can cause some withdrawal (though what they describe as withdrawal just sounds like the way I feel without it, not worse! so who knows....). It also seems that most of the people who complain of excessive sleepiness are the ones taking 2000mg+ of the stuff daily. I've been taking 600mg a night with the occasional additional 300mg during the day. I'm really curious though if I'll have to increase my dosage significantly over time. I'm going to stick with the 600-900mg/day irregardless of how well it works until I see my doc again on the 25th. I want to get his opinion on it!
Posted 1/21/2013 3:55 AM (GMT 0)
Hi - I'm curious if you're still taking the phenibut. I started taking it about 5-6 weeks ago and was blown away by how well I slept on it. Best sleep I've had in years.

Then I did more research and discovered that it's super addictive and has a few other problems as well - namely it's efficacy decreases very rapidly, and it has very intense withdrawal symptoms.

Are you still taking it? If so, what has your experience with it been?

Thanks much
Posted 3/21/2017 11:00 AM (GMT 0)
Any update from anyone on this topic as far as having to increase the dose or withdrawals?
Posted 3/21/2017 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
Bump
Posted 3/21/2017 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, I have read about Gaba but haven't researched it very thoroughly. So all this information is amazing. I took Ambien for 10 years plus 3 mg of Klonopin and other sleep aids and I still couldn't sleep.

After about 18 months of treatment, I am sleeping much better. But there are some weeks when I still do not sleep. So I am definitely going to buy some.

One thing that really helped with the quality of my sleep was turning the wifi off and all electronics in our bedroom. Except for my hubby's phone which is on his side of the bed. He has a 90-year old mother who lives a few miles down the road, so he needs to hear it when she calls. Plus he needs an alarm.

Thanks so much for all the wonderful information.
Posted 3/21/2017 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
Oops I forgot to say that I no longer take Ambien. I do have Valium and Klonopin for when my Bartonella fires up, but I rarely have to take either of them. Which is nice.

I'm not sure but I think taking Glutathione with Alka Seltzer Gold twice a day really made a difference in my sleeping. Plus I take L-Theanine and here it the link for that: https://www.drugs.com/npc/l-theanine.html
Posted 3/22/2017 2:50 AM (GMT 0)
I take StressArrest by Designs For Health (it's GABA), 2-4 a day as needed (i stick with 3). I was taking it to come off antidepressants then i got hit with Lyme, so the two collided and i will never know what symptoms went with each episode.

I will say that I sleep very well. This is also due to getting my cortisol levels checked and fixing them, also working on my progesterone. But getting off SSRI's, and on an adrenal complex, and perhaps GABA is a factor, has me sleeping better than I have in years. i also gave up caffeine, and stay far from sugar after 5 pm.

And since staring lyme abx I haven't needed a nap during the day - i lay down a lot but don't fall asleep, very rarely do I get that exhausted anymore. And i used to nap a lot before Lyme.

My ND and my LLMD are working independently of each other, but I do believe that my ND is always steering my body in the right direction, giving it the tools it needs not only to fight Lyme but lead a healthy lifestyle in general. I cannot recommend naturopathic support enough! For Lyme, I'm doing abx, no protocol-specific herbs, but i think my naturopathic treatment (which was started before lyme) had helped me fight it tremendously.
Posted 3/22/2017 3:00 AM (GMT 0)

Leno1978 said...
Any update from anyone on this topic as far as having to increase the dose or withdrawals?

You probably won't get any updates from the people that posted before you, the last one was more than 4 years ago. But at least you got some current comments.

It is interesting information, and good to have brought it to light again.
Posted 3/22/2017 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for sharing, I have trouble with anxiety and sleep from time to time so this is good to know
Posted 3/22/2017 10:54 AM (GMT 0)
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS EVERYDAY, twice a week at the most. Even that can cause problems.

I've been a nootropic user all my life and a member of longevity where hardcore users of phenibut warn about the side effects. The withdrawals can be horrid and tolerance comes up quickly.

For lyme this is couterproductive in my view. There are much safer options for sleep that work on GABA receptors. Phenibut withdrawals can be just as bad as alcohol.

I always say train your GANA receptors TO RECENSITZE THEMSELVES by taking a GABA antagonist inhibitor in the early morning. Yeah, could give you anxiety, will make you more alert but it will RECENSITZE receptors so you don't have to RELY on anode moderately dangerous drug that works acutely and will decensitize receptors so you'll always need it with tolerance and addiction. Stick with antagonist in morning, GABA agonist at night like lemon balm, skullcap, passionflower, valerian, etc.

Post Edited (birthdaysuit) : 3/22/2017 4:59:10 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/22/2017 11:02 AM (GMT 0)
Edit; ginseng is a GAba antagonist.
Posted 2/20/2023 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
I starting coming off Klonopin very very slowly. last week February 9 I was still taking 1.75 mg of Klonopin and I came down Friday Febuary 10 to 1.50 mg daily. I started taking every day Gaba instead of that .25 that I missed from Klonopin. I took pure encapsulation 750 Mg Gaba it make me extremely tired and couldn't function at all. i took it for 9 days kept on feeling terrible from the Gaba. Can anyone explain? thanks.
Posted 2/20/2023 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
For people with sleep issues, esp. anxiety and heart palpitations, and alertness at night, you might want to consider taking Cortisol Manager (Enymatic Therapies). It often helps me (though my problems seem to be super complex/treatment resistant).

Many of the symptoms people are describing can often be caused by inappropriately high cortisol levels.
Posted 2/20/2023 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
SamBernie:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4147723&g=4314929#m4314929
Posted 2/21/2023 2:06 AM (GMT 0)

SamBernie said...
I starting coming off Klonopin very very slowly. last week February 9 I was still taking 1.75 mg of Klonopin and I came down Friday Febuary 10 to 1.50 mg daily. I started taking every day Gaba instead of that .25 that I missed from Klonopin. I took pure encapsulation 750 Mg Gaba it make me extremely tired and couldn't function at all. i took it for 9 days kept on feeling terrible from the Gaba. Can anyone explain? thanks.

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

Although I quoted this, this really goes out to anyone and everyone on benzos. Benzos are one of the most dangerous drugs on the planet. Please be careful with these drugs. Switching to GABA as a supplement could put you at risk, so be careful and follow someone that knows what they are doing. 1.75 MG is a high dose and it's recommended to go low and slow with these issues. When I did come up benzos, I switched to Diazepam because of the half life staying in the body longer (you want this) like clonazepam, but what most don't know is dropping even a quarter of a MG is like coming off 5 MG's of diazepam at a time, hence why crossing over is recommended by Ashton (one of the world's best for this kind of thing, RIP). I also recommend the benzo withdrawal forums to connect with others, there's a lot of info out there and unfortunately a lot of is is straight up wrong, like how some websites say that it can't last more than a few months. Well, they're wrong. Please be aware there are some that have been coming off them for years and the effects can last for years if you aren't careful. No one needs that stress, especially with the crap we're dealing with already. Of course, I don't want to scare you (or anyone for that matter), but I also wish I had been told sooner. It's not like we can simply keep going up and down with the dose either. Just be careful and come off slow, and take your time. I do see that you are saying you are coming off very very slowly, but there's unfortunately no true replamcents for these kinds of drugs due to the way they work. Sure, we can try other things that attach to GABA A but taking something that attaches to GABA B isn't going to do the trick. Anything that attaches to GABA A will open the pathway and without the benzo, the doors close, hence the symptoms. You just have to wait for it to heal with good diet, exercise, and sleep. All of which become much more difficult without it. But please don't mark me off as some crazy guy from the internet. I've been spending years researching this stuff, and back when I was that "crazy" guy, I still did it. The key is slow and don't bother trying to poke the bear. I have seen way too many do this what seems like hundreds of times, only to come back saying they wish they hadn't. I wish you the best of luck though! You will do great and naturally, you will heal. Trust me when I say I have seen many heal.
Posted 2/21/2023 10:43 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Forest for all your advice. But by now I am two weeks at 1.50 and not going back. But I personally feel that Gaba 750 mg every day was much to much for me . I feel my klonopin has settled pretty much at 1.50. i see by me even gaba i have to go slowly. why i dont know.
Posted 2/21/2023 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
That's completely fine. I would always tell someone who has come off that much to do their best to stay down. The only time to ups dose is if you absolutely need to. The problem with these kinds of things has to do with how the drug works. While I pretty much always lean towards avoid all drugs and supplements, sometimes we need them. I start with supplements before I start with conventional western medicine. However, people believe these supplements work the same way as these western drugs. For example, years ago, it was shown that GABA didn't even pass the BBB, but now we see it does... but in extremely small doses. It's important to remember it's not a lack of GABA, it's the region that accepts it, the receptor site. I am wary of studies that are new and only have one article to back this up as well, so it's important to take it all with a grain of salt. We do however have a bunch of data that shows GABA doesn't affect much. If you really want to enhance these effects, you will have to open the site, which involves some exercise, but be wary that this will increase glutamate and would mean for other excitatory to flare up. Of course, we need glutamate, but when it's in excess, it will affect GABA and much more. It will lower with some exercise (weeks afterwards) and good nutrition (contrary to believe, months afterwards). I will never shut up about good nutrition lol. But I just want to spread this because I don't see a lot of people focuses on this stuff on here these days. I really wish the best for you.

Post Edited (Forest) : 2/21/2023 3:01:31 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 2/21/2023 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
Why do you think Forest that taking Gaba too high dose is no good.
Posted 2/21/2023 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
It's not that taking a high dose of GABA isn't good, it's how it binds and what it is doing. If you are trying to cross from a benzo to a GABA supplement, they do not do the same thing. Benzos work by attaching to the pathway that access GABA A, while GABA as a supplement adds GABA to the GABA B pathway. It's completely different. Now, that's not to say that it doesn't work, but it's not direct. Again, the best way for this to work is to slowly come off the benzo. Adding in something like GABA can disrupt this and sadly even in 2023, we don't know how this disrupts it. It's thought to be that dopamine might modulate the activity, and this would explain why those who are suffering may have high dopamine levels. My recommendation for leveling this out yet again would be light exercise and good nutrition, nutrition always being far more important. It's what enables those pathways to do their job. Think of exercise as opening the door all the way, but nutrients literally opening the door. Your body is the frame and the door is food. We don't need food though, we need nutrients. As a matter of fact, many supplements become a complete placebo effect when the body doesn't have the right nutrients. Think of like taking turmeric without black pepper, or trying to build muscle without actually moving. It doesn't work without a foundation.
Posted 2/27/2023 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
I've been dependent on 10 mg of zolpidem for years. I so wish to get off of it. I take phenibut but not every night because it is addicting and difficult to get off of.

And I take the powdered kind and use gelatin capsules so I can take as little or more as needed.

I find that less is more effective than a full capsule
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12